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Those aren't all major cities and I do think that Chicago is closer to Houston in terms of sophistication than it is to Boston, San Francisco, and Washington DC. And I don't think anyone would really dispute that.
This is not a good take. I'm not sure what criteria you would use to make this assumption, perhaps just the massive size of Chicago tends to bring things closer to the mean. Regardless, for many of the reasons others have posted, I don't think this is an accurate assessment.
I feel like we are talking about two different things in terms of what actually constitutes "sophistication" in urban life. I think it's mainly about the people and you are talking about the institutions.
Chicago has always marketed itself as a really attractive place precisely because it is a blue collar, "everyman" city with world class cultural institutions. It's the place where Big Ten grads can come and enjoy urban infrastructure and life and world class culture without having to go outside of the small town, down home Midwestern milieu that you very much feel in Chicago.
Personally you are right--I hate it. But all of the people who do love Chicago love precisely that and the people who do love Chicago are usually emphatically not sophisticated people who are almost always attracted to the coasts for very obvious reasons.
Though much of this has merit. You chose Chicago (settled for as cheaper yourself) BUT SAY YOU HATE IT. Well that shows in most of your post. If you chose to live also on a cheaper side of the city? It reasons of course it is less educated in that neighborhood and sophisticated by your European standard and own personal view of your superiority.
If a professional and perhaps a bit pretentious yourself.... You should move to the cities you elevate as superior. Saying you hate a aspect of a city and not even crime or politics ... makes little sense to stay as a professional with top skills to take anywhere as not even a hometown.
I do not think Chicago billed itself a blue-colar for decades. Big 10 broish is basically its Midwestern trait it has had but also those higher in education it also always did and its highest ranking University is NOT into Big 10 Bro without sports teams as the University of Chicago.
Sadly all our cities are loosing the middle-class. Chicago kept a good share and it's not a bad thing. Their neighborhoods are vibrant and add those gentrified with professionals and then the poor you have the 3 Chicago's.
In this link below... of the top largest metros in the US. Those being NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston snd DFW. Chicago was still the higher ranking if these largest..... by this link.
This link on most EDUCATED CITIES. 2021. I see no list of criteria it based stats off of. I would think the US Census had to be a key in this? There is a mid-sized city rank list and large city list of 55 cities ranked by education level of attainment.
One thing is every city-proper listed above Chicago... which is smack in the middle. Have their WHOLE city-proper basically fit into Chicago's Northside in size and population with some much smaller.
Specific stats in #'s here also by -
- Less then high school,
- High School level,
- Associate's degree
- Bachelor's and Graduate/Professional degrees.
One can see most all cities are very close by professional highest degrees and Chicago is just under Boston in that.
I am surprised Boston is not top 10. It is at #12 but still..... all the fussing it is on top here vs Chicago. Well higher yes as expected.
Surprises for me is...
- Boston not to 10 at #12.
- SF at #5 (when we think it top 3 for sure with Bos)
- Lil ole Louisville, KY at #24
- San Jose' further then expected at #23
- Again, Chicago is the largest city in the top 25 at #25.
Some largest metros and rank.
I will just start with Chicago and under ..
Chicago - #25
Philadelphia - #36
New York City - #37
Phoenix - #43
Houston - #45
Detroit - #46
Dallas - #48
Cleveland - #49
Los Angeles - #50
Miami - #51
OPEN THE LINK FOR FULL LIST AND TOP CITIES.
So seeing NYC, Houston and LA lower then Chicago could be why a link claimed debunked said Chicago was the most educated Big City?
That has been disproven, ad nauseum, on threads. Unless you're only comparing it to NYC and LA, Chicago falls shorts of many other major cities and metros as far as educational attainment.
I believe I know what link you refer to. Yet using the link above that's not on pretentious levels but "education levels) by city (has to be metros). I reason maybe why that link claimed so?
In this above link... of the top largest metros in the US. Those being NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston and DFW. Chicago was still the higher ranking of our "largest" Big cities/metros in this link.
Last edited by LeafyDenseCities; 10-12-2022 at 11:38 AM..
Again, Chicago is the largest city in the top 25 at #25
If there's ever been selectivity in an argument, it's this point. Which has been debated and put to rest in other threads. No matter what the topic, you are a contrarians contrarian on behalf of Chicago.
Nobody in their right mind would call San Francisco, or Boston, or Seattle, or DC anything other than large cities in the US. People need to stop saying Chicago is the most educated city (previous thready). It's simply not true, and nobody wants to debate the size threshold to make your argument stand up.
All I see in the list you posted, and most any other, is that Chicago is the 25th most well educated city, and likely behind at the metro level.
Urban Areas is another geographic area to consider.
Large Urban Areas(Pop 500,000+) by Percentage of Adults With a Bachelor Degree or Higher, 2021:
Concord, CA 60.6%
San Jose, CA 56.4%
Washington, DC-VA-MD 56.4%
Raleigh, NC 55.9%
Austin, TX 53.8%
Mission Viejo-Lake Forest-San Clemente, CA 53.7%
San Francisco-Oakland, CA 52.5%
Boston, MA-NH-RI 51.0%
Bridgeport-Stamford, CT-NY 50.1%
Charlotte, NC-SC 48.5%
Seattle, WA 48.5%
Minneapolis-St Paul, MN-WI 47.5%
Denver-Aurora, CO 47.1%
Provo-Orem, UT 46.0%
Nashville-Davidson, TN 44.9%
Atlanta, GA 44.6%
Portland, OR-WA 44.3%
Columbus, OH 43.6%
New York-Newark, NY-NJ-CT 43.6%
Baltimore, MD 43.3%
Albany-Schenectady, NY 43.1%
Pittsburgh, PA 42.6%
Philadelphia, PA-NJ-DE-MD 42.3%
San Diego, CA 42.3%
Charleston-North Charleston, SC 42.1%
Richmond, VA 41.8%
Chicago-IL-IN 41.5%
New Haven, CT 41.5%
Kansas City, MO-KS 41.1%
Worcester, MA-CT 41.1%
Indianapolis, IN 40.9%
Rochester, NY 40.8%
Birmingham, AL 40.7%
St Louis, MO-IL 40.7%
Colorado Springs, CO 40.4%
Grand Rapids, MI 40.2%
Columbia,SC 40.1%
Hartford, CT 40.1%
Cincinnati, OH-KY-IN 39.6%
Milwaukee, WI 39.5%
Des Moines, IA 39.4%
Omaha, NE-IA 39.1%
Dallas-Ft Worth-Arlington, TX 38.0%
Buffalo, NY 37.9%
Orlando, FL 37.8%
Knoxville, TN 37.2%
Albuquerque, NM 36.9%
Sarasota-Bradenton, FL 36.9%
Salt Lake City-West Valley City, UT 36.7%
Urban Honolulu, HI 36.7%
Cleveland, OH 36.6%
Los Angeles-Long Beach-Anaheim, CA 36.2%
Virginia Beach, VA 36.2%
Phoenix-Mesa, AZ 36.0%
Tampa-St Petersburg, FL 35.8%
Houston, TX 35.5%
Sacramento, CA 35.5%
Miami, FL 35.3%
Springfield, MA-CT 35.2%
Jacksonville, FL 34.7%
Louisville, KY-IN 34.6%
Detroit, MI 34.6%
Palm Bay-Melbourne, FL 34.4%
Providence, RI-MA 34.3%
Tucson, AZ 34.2%
Ogden-Layton, UT 33.6%
Oklahoma City, OK 33.3%
Baton Rouge, LA 33.0%
Dayton, OH 33.0%
New Orleans, LA 32.8%
Allentown, PA-NJ 32.6%
Memphis, TN-MS-AR 32.2%
Akron, OH 31.4%
Toledo, OH-MI 29.2%
Murrieta-Temecula-Menifee, CA 28.7%
Cape Coral, FL 28.4%
Fresno, CA 27.4%
Las Vegas-Henderson, NV 27.0%
El Paso, TX-MN 25.2%
Riverside-San Bernardino, CA 21.6%
McAllen, TX 21.0%
Bakersfield, CA 20.1%
Last edited by 18Montclair; 10-12-2022 at 01:27 PM..
The New Orleans area is very non-pretentious despite having some extremely wealthy old money areas like Uptown and the Garden District and plenty of wealth in the suburbs.
Baton Rouge has some intellectualism because of the presence of LSU which is a major part of our culture here but is also very non-pretentious. Both areas also have people who are not particularly educated but live very comfortably because of the industrial jobs in the area.
I've not been there but I've heard Austin, Texas is very educated but not stuck up compared to places like California or the Northeast.
Though much of this has merit. You chose Chicago (settled for as cheaper yourself) BUT SAY YOU HATE IT. Well that shows in most of your post. If you chose to live also on a cheaper side of the city? It reasons of course it is less educated in that neighborhood and sophisticated by your European standard and own personal view of your superiority.
If a professional and perhaps a bit pretentious yourself.... You should move to the cities you elevate as superior. Saying you hate a aspect of a city and not even crime or politics ... makes little sense to stay as a professional with top skills to take anywhere as not even a hometown.
I do not think Chicago billed itself a blue-colar for decades. Big 10 broish is basically its Midwestern trait it has had but also those higher in education it also always did and its highest ranking University is NOT into Big 10 Bro without sports teams as the University of Chicago.
Sadly all our cities are loosing the middle-class. Chicago kept a good share and it's not a bad thing. Their neighborhoods are vibrant and add those gentrified with professionals and then the poor you have the 3 Chicago's.
In this link below... of the top largest metros in the US. Those being NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston snd DFW. Chicago was still the higher ranking if these largest..... by this link.
This link on most EDUCATED CITIES. 2021. I see no list of criteria it based stats off of. I would think the US Census had to be a key in this? There is a mid-sized city rank list and large city list of 55 cities ranked by education level of attainment.
One thing is every city-proper listed above Chicago... which is smack in the middle. Have their WHOLE city-proper basically fit into Chicago's Northside in size and population with some much smaller.
Specific stats in #'s here also by -
- Less then high school,
- High School level,
- Associate's degree
- Bachelor's and Graduate/Professional degrees.
One can see most all cities are very close by professional highest degrees and Chicago is just under Boston in that.
I am surprised Boston is not top 10. It is at #12 but still..... all the fussing it is on top here vs Chicago. Well higher yes as expected.
Surprises for me is...
- Boston not to 10 at #12.
- SF at #5 (when we think it top 3 for sure with Bos)
- Lil ole Louisville, KY at #24
- San Jose' further then expected at #23
- Again, Chicago is the largest city in the top 25 at #25.
Some largest metros and rank.
I will just start with Chicago and under ..
Chicago - #25
Philadelphia - #36
New York City - #37
Phoenix - #43
Houston - #45
Detroit - #46
Dallas - #48
Cleveland - #49
Los Angeles - #50
Miami - #51
OPEN THE LINK FOR FULL LIST AND TOP CITIES.
So seeing NYC, Houston and LA lower then Chicago could be why a link claimed debunked said Chicago was the most educated Big City?
I believe I know what link you refer to. Yet using the link above that's not on pretentious levels but "education levels) by city (has to be metros). I reason maybe why that link claimed so?
In this above link... of the top largest metros in the US. Those being NYC, LA, Chicago, Houston and DFW. Chicago was still the higher ranking of our "largest" Big cities/metros in this link.
No I live on the north side, but you're right that I do hate it. In any case I didn't mean to imply that Chicago markets itself as a blue collar city, but rather precisely as the Big Ten frat guy city. But in terms of sophistication I honestly think there's probably nothing less sophisticated than Big Ten bros and that Chicago is less sophisticated today precisely because it is less vibrant and cosmopolitan as a result of its decision to hand the city over the white people from Wisconsin who think they're in some major global player when in fact they're just in a really massive Cleveland.
While you're right about having a very strong blue collar reputation, the top end of Chicago, largely found in the northside and into the northshore, is about as affluent, sophisticated, well traveled and well educated as it gets. Is it Boston or DC or San Francisco? No.
But I don't see a real difference between NYC, LA, or Chicago in this way. All three share the same type of socioeconomic diversity. All three have many different areas. All three have varying degrees of sophistication. Yes Manhattan is head and shoulders above the rest, but using your logic, NYC and LA are probably more blue collar cities.
Don't forget, Chicago is arguably the top destination for Northwestern, University of Chicago, Notre Dame, Michigan, Illinois, and Wisconsin graduates. So while it doesn't get the same type of domestic migration coastal cities do, it does pull in a lot of brainpower. If only Iowa graduates would stay away...
Well I do disagree that LA and NYC are not significantly different from Chicago but I agree with the rest. Chicago certainly does have a significant core population of wealthy, influential people as a result of its size and its status as a corporate hub (although that's changing pretty quickly as companies leave for the sunbelt).
I don't know if everybody has the same definition of pretentious. Is it snobby, elitist rich people? People who put stickers on the back of their car of the prestigious college they or their kids went to? People with green hair who were into "..." before anyone had heard of it? In New York you find a lot of the first type, in Boston the second, in Portland and Minneapolis the third.
They're all pretentious. All of it, in their own way.
No I live on the north side, but you're right that I do hate it. In any case I didn't mean to imply that Chicago markets itself as a blue collar city, but rather precisely as the Big Ten frat guy city. But in terms of sophistication I honestly think there's probably nothing less sophisticated than Big Ten bros and that Chicago is less sophisticated today precisely because it is less vibrant and cosmopolitan as a result of its decision to hand the city over the white people from Wisconsin who think they're in some major global player when in fact they're just in a really massive Cleveland.
Many former Europeans made Chicago home when it was at its most Blue-Collar and so were they. Still at heart... it is a quintessential "AMERICAN city".
It was floated in links around 2014 15 on Chicago "The Most American City" including its former mayor Emmanuel. If that notion is not your style .... and having aspects of a bro culture among those as home boys and from who migrated from the Midwest you seem to abhor. No one will try to keep you there HATING a city you settled for .... even after short stints in other American cities after arriving from Europe.
Not sure which city you can afford? You might find less AMERICAN and you will prefer? The tech nerds I doubt fit your style, nor the bible-belt types, nor the rap scene culture. You cannot run from American culture. Only find your own niche among it.
I would think Chicago has its elite Arts scene and contributers that you could become part of their scene? Maybe a London, Paris or Barcelona can still be in your next stage and love its more cultured residents. Whose drink of choice is not beer ......
Unhappiness does lead to bitterness. Not good if it festers. Why not create a new thread in maybe the General US forum on - "Help me choose a new city in the US that fits your desired (not bro culture whatsoever) but still affordable and more on the Arts type of people more cosmopolitan types. Clearly a cost factor will come in.
I believe every large city has a Arts scene and some perhaps more then you cannot find in a Chicago or afford to live among. You clearly got some links on higher education cities. But is it far less bro/frat cultered. Maybe - 18montclair can aid you....
Well I do disagree that LA and NYC are not significantly different from Chicago but I agree with the rest. Chicago certainly does have a significant core population of wealthy, influential people as a result of its size and its status as a corporate hub (although that's changing pretty quickly as companies leave for the sunbelt).
You should consider making your way back to the NYC area. No reason to be unhappy.
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