Top 10 Affordable Walkable Cities (violent crime, neighborhood, college)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
To be fair Jacksonville is pretty under the radar in general, in any kind of urbanity discussions. I've been here for 7 years and I didn't know it was particularly known for its bridges (looks like I have some research and streetviewing ahead of me!), I only ever hear about it in the context of its empty downtown and being the poster child for "large city population ≠ large metro area".
It's not that under the radar. He's certainly aware of it when it comes to showcasing cities in his "dishonorable" mentions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mhays25
CityNerd uses real data (like commute stats in addition to walk score), and he's clear on his criteria and biases. That elevates him way beyond clickbait.
Yes cities that score poorly in urban metrics won't do well. And cities below size thresholds. And yes he should use metro or UA rather than core city.
Perhaps saying click bait was a bit unfair. I stand by my opinion of him though. He is borderline intellectually dishonest(ie the inclusion of "affordable" neighborhoods, that are affordable due to a notable lack of desirability). He regularly leaves that bit of common sense information out when including cities like Baltimore(and even the occasional Detroit). To be fair after the first couple minutes I did not watch this video through, so perhaps he mentioned the negatives on some of the places he included. I also lost a few more respect points with his use of city pop as his core point of reference. A city nerd, especially a monetized content creator should know the difference. He capped that list at the top 122 cities proper which includes 30+ suburbs, and excludes at least 10 cores of top 80 urban areas.
Overall I tend to agree with a lot of his urbanist view points, and I also think he's good at the delivery in his videos. However the cities that make his lists are one dimensional. Regardless of data, he does filter out cities he doesn't like from his lists. He's not an unbiased subject matter expert, he's pushing an ideology. There are other content creators that actually will include cities they disagree with if they meet the criteria for their lists. At this point I need to see him put out content that is more diverse and maybe show cases a city or two that are actually a surprise for me to be interested again. It's his channel he can put out what he wants. I just don't want to see him showcased on a platform like this without context of his approach.
Last edited by Landolakes90; 01-28-2023 at 06:11 AM..
It's not that under the radar. He's certainly aware of it when it comes to showcasing cities in his "dishonorable" mentions.
Perhaps saying click bait was a bit unfair. I stand by my opinion of him though. I agree with a lot of his urbanist view points, and I also think he's good at the delivery in his videos. However the cities that make his lists are one dimensional. Regardless of data, he does filter out cities he doesn't like from his lists. He's not an unbiased subject matter expert, he's pushing an ideology. There are other content creators that actually will include cities they disagree with if they meet the criteria for their lists.
You do need some arbitrary size cutoff otherwise you’d just end up with a list of really small mill cities in the Northeast.
The list would be like Albany, Binghamton Allentown, Pittsfield, New London, etc. and quite boring.
You do need some arbitrary size cutoff otherwise you’d just end up with a list of really small mill cities in the Northeast.
The list would be like Albany, Binghamton Allentown, Pittsfield, New London, etc. and quite boring.
Sorry I went into late edit mode, lease see my more detailed response above. IMO the list was still boring. Based on watching his videos the last couple of years I could have probably guessed the list without watching it.
I understand you need a cut off point and I agree. The use of city pop just shows a lack of credibility IMO. There's a good chance even if he used UA the cities you mention above likely wouldn't make the cut anyway due to other critera. Madison made the cut and outside of downtown and the university it's every bit as car centric as any Midwestern city. Cities that anchor much larger UA's than Madison could not be included because they weren't one of the 122 largest city propers. However Aurora CO, and Plano TX were eligible for consideration.
Not one of the cities is warm weather. I never thought Buffalo was walkable and I lived there for 64 years. Shouldn't walkability take into account, crime and weather? The city of Buffalo does not have the greatest snow removal and you risk your life on the sidewalks, which are covered in ice.
Not one of the cities is warm weather. I never thought Buffalo was walkable and I lived there for 64 years. Shouldn't walkability take into account, crime and weather? The city of Buffalo does not have the greatest snow removal and you risk your life on the sidewalks, which are covered in ice.
Not one of the cities is warm weather. I never thought Buffalo was walkable and I lived there for 64 years. Shouldn't walkability take into account, crime and weather? The city of Buffalo does not have the greatest snow removal and you risk your life on the sidewalks, which are covered in ice.
The only warm cities in the US are in southern California. The south is miserably hot. It's more difficult to walk somewhere drenched in sweat versus putting on a coat.
Video made by a self-confessed "modesly-hip white dude".
I will give him Pittsburg. After that, you had better like high crime.
Downtown St. Louis? Baltimore? Newark. Bad part of Philly. Bad part of Chicago. Yeah. Sure. I don't think so Tim.
Maybe I am just disappointed that I thought he had found a few undiscovered gems, not that I think any gems have gone undiscovered these days. All he came up with is what you would expect - lower end, higher crime areas of walkable cities. Tell us something we didn't know.
Maybe it is just that his title is wrong. It should be "Top 10 Affordable AREAS in Walkable Cities", because few these cities are considered particularly affordable. You can find affordable bad areas in any city.
Bonus round: How walkable is Buffalo 6 months out of the year?
Plenty of relatively good parts of Philly and Chicago can be pretty affordable. And plenty of nice neighborhoods in St Louis.
I do think at least St Louis (and Cleveland) has a bit of an ability to hand-wave away cause it’s pretty cohesive “sides” of the city. So you can fairly easily avoid it. While cause Downtown Baltimore and the immediate east side by JH Hospital, so you kinda have 2 nice neighborhoods to the South, two separate ones to the North and separate ones to the east. So you basically got stuck with small bits of a walkable city.
While St Louis I feel you more have a pretty large swath in the center/south and Cleveland Center/west.
But again because they’re are swaths of neighborhoods I’d not be too keen on hanging out in, you effectively have a city with fewer nice walkable urban neighborhoods than like Buffalo despite being larger.
That would be center-east. The west side of downtown is Ohio City (already gentrified), Detroit Shoreway (rapidly gentrifying), then established Edgewater and Cudell which blend pretty seamlessly into the very desirable border suburb of Lakewood.
Video made by a self-confessed "modesly-hip white dude".
I will give him Pittsburg. After that, you had better like high crime.
Downtown St. Louis? Baltimore? Newark. Bad part of Philly. Bad part of Chicago. Yeah. Sure. I don't think so Tim.
Maybe I am just disappointed that I thought he had found a few undiscovered gems, not that I think any gems have gone undiscovered these days. All he came up with is what you would expect - lower end, higher crime areas of walkable cities. Tell us something we didn't know.
Maybe it is just that his title is wrong. It should be "Top 10 Affordable AREAS in Walkable Cities", because few these cities are considered particularly affordable. You can find affordable bad areas in any city.
Bonus round: How walkable is Buffalo 6 months out of the year?
Buffalo is walkable 12 months out of the year - 8-9 months with no snow at all, 3-4 months with sidewalks and roads clear most of the time. Even with snow, people walk, not as many are out as warmer days, but they are out. I walk almost every day. After the blizzard we walked everywhere for a few days as many of the streets were still not cleared for cars and a driving ban was in force. Even Target and other stores stayed open for pedestrians during the driving ban. That's what's great about living in a walkable neighborhood, if you can't drive you are not stuck at home.
Are the sidewalks always clear and perfect? No, but well-used footpaths appear anytime snow happens, most people do clear and salt their walks, and the streets themselves become temporarily shared between cars and pedestrians during the worst of it. Proper footwear helps, most people have good snow boots or slip on grippers or crampons. As kids everyone wore slip on rubbers and snow boots over their regular shoes that worked great on ice, though today I never see them anymore.
The first warm-ish sunny day in March the streets and parks will again be full of people.
Last edited by RocketSci; 01-28-2023 at 02:38 PM..
Buffalo is walkable 12 months out of the year - 8-9 months with no snow at all, 3-4 months with sidewalks and roads clear most of the time. Even with snow, people walk, not as many are out as warmer days, but they are out. I walk almost every day. After the blizzard we walked everywhere for a few days as many of the streets were still not cleared for cars and a driving ban was in force. Even Target and other stores stayed open for pedestrians during the driving ban. That's what's great about living in a walkable neighborhood, if you can't drive you are not stuck at home.
Are the sidewalks always clear and perfect? No, but well-used footpaths appear anytime snow happens, most people do clear and salt their walks, and the streets themselves become temporarily shared between cars and pedestrians during the worst of it. Proper footwear helps, most people have good snow boots or slip on grippers or crampons. As kids everyone wore slip on rubbers and snow boots over their regular shoes that worked great on ice, though today I never see them anymore.
The first warm-ish sunny day in March the streets and parks will again be full of people.
It depends on your age. If you are young and healthy, its one thing but if you area a senior (like me) walking on those treacherous sidewalks is dangerous. I have fallen numerous times and sustained injuries. I have yet to fall down here in sunny Florida (fingers crossed). I'll take the heat and humidity any day. I go for a walk almost every day, as do many of my neighbors. You can walk to the supermarket, but its a chore carrying things back. My house gets a 7 walkability score vs a 57 from my previous place in WNY but I walk more here. Go figure.
Another thing "most people do clear and salt their walks" not in my neighborhood, maybe 30% did. Once people walk on the snow and it freezes, its impossible to clean. You are "supposed to" keep your sidewalk clean but I have back problems. If you go away, then your sidewalk becomes a potential lawsuit waiting to happen. When we moved to Florida and our house hadn't sold yet, I depended on a snowplow contractor to do the sidewalks which was almost impossible to find, let alone follow up on. I used to dread opening our, mail lest I find a lawsuit from someone slipping on our sidewalk.
Last edited by Thundarr457; 01-29-2023 at 09:19 AM..
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
