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I think it’s perfectly reasonable to not consider Salinas a city 90 miles from SF as a SF suburb.
It’s so weird SF and DC are so desperate for status they pretend places 100 miles away are actually part of their city.
It’s not and on the ground Salinas doesn’t operate that way either. I don’t remember ever hearing anybody trying to count Salinas. Heck we used to debate on whether Santa Cruz should be in our “club”! I even think it’s dicey to include a lot of the spillover into the delta/Central Valley even though that growth is directly tied to the nuckin’ futs housing situation in the Bay Area.
Again this is because Counties too rough to accurately capture metros in areas with dense base populations. Mansfield isn’t in the Boston MSA not because it isn’t a Boston suburb but
Exactly my point - if I have to choose between a meaningless, Frankenstein definition that ignores towns that are unarguably suburbs of Boston and a definition that includes everything important plus some cow pastures in central NH, I’m going to choose the latter.
I think it’s perfectly reasonable to not consider Salinas a city 90 miles from SF as a SF suburb.
It’s so weird SF and DC are so desperate for status they pretend places 100 miles away are actually part of their city.
It's odd to characterize this as the cities themselves being desperate for status as I don't think the cities care at all. What's happening is probably more along the lines that they are fairly strong economic engines with high paying salaries and very costly real estate nearby so people are going much further out for that lower cost of living while the salary is still large enough to make the grueling commutes an acceptable trade-off for them. Remember, CSAs are done via a fairly low threshold (far from majority) for county-level commuting patterns among the workforce.
Exactly my point - if I have to choose between a meaningless, Frankenstein definition that ignores towns that are unarguably suburbs of Boston and a definition that includes everything important plus some cow pastures in central NH, I’m going to choose the latter.
The thing is MSA’s might not have the correct people but it roughly cancels out of who’s in but shouldn’t be and who’s out who should be in. (Frankly Most MSA’s are probably 10-12% too big)
I don’t think correctly assigning Mansfield or to Boston is a good trade for pretending Laconia NH, Gardner MA or Westerly RI are in any way Metro Boston.
You are I guess correct in most cases that CSA’s aggressiveness in annexation is “cow pastures” but in Boston, DC , SF and Cleveland’s case the issue is it’s not Cow pastures, its Providence, Baltimore, San Jose and Canton that are absurdly grafted on where they don’t belong.
Even Merrimack County NH which is largely rural has 155,000 people it’s not nothing
Here are the new MSA numbers based on the updated metropolitan delineations:
Updated MSAs (4 million plus)
New York MSA: 19,557,311
Los Angeles MSA: 12,872,322
Chicago MSA: 9,274,200
Dallas MSA: 7,943,685
Houston MSA: 7,368,466
Washington MSA: 6,265,183 Philadelphia MSA: 6,241,163
Atlanta MSA: 6,237,435
Miami MSA: 6,139,330
Phoenix MSA: 5,015,678
Boston MSA: 4,900,550
Riverside MSA: 4,667,558
San Francisco MSA: 4,579,599
Detroit MSA: 4,345,761
Seattle MSA: 4,034,248
Quick Takeaways: The 6 million metros are very close in population. Only 126,000 people separate Miami and Washington. Seattle finally entered the 4 million club. Dallas will hit 8 million next year. Boston and San Francisco may align more with their CSA population or at least some of it because the MSA population feels too small for those two cities.
Poor Philadelphia, let's Toast to Philadelphia's final days as 7th largest Metro. Philly will still be a Great City
Here are the new MSA numbers based on the updated metropolitan delineations:
Updated MSAs (4 million plus)
New York MSA: 19,557,311
Los Angeles MSA: 12,872,322
Chicago MSA: 9,274,200 Dallas MSA: 7,943,685
Houston MSA: 7,368,466
Washington MSA: 6,265,183
Philadelphia MSA: 6,241,163
Atlanta MSA: 6,237,435
Miami MSA: 6,139,330
Phoenix MSA: 5,015,678
Boston MSA: 4,900,550
Riverside MSA: 4,667,558
San Francisco MSA: 4,579,599
Detroit MSA: 4,345,761
Seattle MSA: 4,034,248
Quick Takeaways: The 6 million metros are very close in population. Only 126,000 people separate Miami and Washington. Seattle finally entered the 4 million club. Dallas will hit 8 million next year. Boston and San Francisco may align more with their CSA population or at least some of it because the MSA population feels too small for those two cities.
This number for DFW is from 2022. We should have already passed 8 million this year.
Atlanta has most likely already passed Philly and possibly DC depending on how much growth they might see this year.
Here are the new MSA numbers based on the updated metropolitan delineations:
Updated MSAs (4 million plus)
New York MSA: 19,557,311
Los Angeles MSA: 12,872,322
Chicago MSA: 9,274,200
Dallas MSA: 7,943,685
Houston MSA: 7,368,466
Washington MSA: 6,265,183
Philadelphia MSA: 6,241,163
Atlanta MSA: 6,237,435
Miami MSA: 6,139,330
Phoenix MSA: 5,015,678
Boston MSA: 4,900,550
Riverside MSA: 4,667,558
San Francisco MSA: 4,579,599
Detroit MSA: 4,345,761
Seattle MSA: 4,034,248
Quick Takeaways: The 6 million metros are very close in population. Only 126,000 people separate Miami and Washington. Seattle finally entered the 4 million club. Dallas will hit 8 million next year. Boston and San Francisco may align more with their CSA population or at least some of it because the MSA population feels too small for those two cities.
Seattle entered the 4 million MSA club 3 years ago. It's MSA boundaries were unchanged. It's just been stagnant since.
Poor Philadelphia, let's Toast to Philadelphia's final days as 7th largest Metro. Philly will still be a Great City
Yeah. Sadly Pennsylvania is the poster child of stagnation.
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