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You say you want tolerance and despise hate, but if someone doesn't agree with everything you say, you call it intolerance and hate and devoid of creative or original thought. Explain to me how that works again =)
I think it's ok to have a low tolerance for intolerance.
I think it's ok to have a low tolerance for intolerance.
Good one!
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Originally Posted by belleislerunner
I was responding to this statement - "I grew up in a conservative, religious small town in PA, that was completely void of creative or original thought - so I'm always attempting to avoid that type of place when I consider relocating".
My point - was that comes across as very judgmental and narrow minded - not as if you're more enlightened than that.
Those insular places and that mentality both certainly exist - don't know how one could say otherwise. They do tend to be conservative and demand conformity, either politically or socially. Grand Rapids is large enough to have a mix.
Be very wary of moving to a small town built around a single church, for instance.
I was responding to this statement - "I grew up in a conservative, religious small town in PA, that was completely void of creative or original thought - so I'm always attempting to avoid that type of place when I consider relocating".
My point - was that comes across as very judgmental and narrow minded - not as if you're more enlightened than that.
The problem with overly conservative religious folk is that they feel compelled to push their religion on others, or that everyone in the community should conform to their standards and values. When in fact much of the time, their values and standards are based on a culture that is over 2000 years old, back when people didn't even understand what menstruation was, people of different races couldn't marry, and you could own slaves.
Arts Scene: I am a photographer, so a solid arts scene is important. A good art scene also attracts a certain type of person, of which I tend to befriend.
A bit above average for the area. GR has art prize and the East Town/Heritage Hill areas have some artistic types. I'd also recommend checking out Saugatuck. That being said this area tries to hard to be hip. I discuss this at some length in this thread. In truth if you come to anywhere in the state of Michigan for the arts scene, go to Ann Arbor.
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Music Scene: I love going to shows, of all kinds.
Van Andel gets a few big names. Rosa Parks circle sometimes has live performances. There really isn't a prominent music scene here though. Most people I knew from high school who were into that went elsewhere.
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Food: I like all kinds of ethnic foods, and access to good local coffee and beer and farmers markets.
In spite of my Grand Rapids bashing, I've actually found the area to be somewhat above average in these regards. There are a lot of microbrews in the area. We grow a lot of fruit in West Michigan so farmers markets are popular.
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Nature This is pretty self explanatory. Grand Rapids is in a beautiful place, so access to being outside will not be a problem! Within the city, are there lots of parks and trails, ect?
A lot outside of the city, not too much inside.
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Diversity It appears from the demographics that GR is rather diverse.
The city itself is not "diverse" per se. There's a lot of white people and a significant minority of black people in the city, a few hispanic neighborhoods exist and there's a few southeast Asians in the area. That being said its only in the city. The surrounding area is overwhelmingly white and I find the city to be relatively segregated.
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Progressive thinking I am not one who will move to a place for the sole reason that it is known to be liberal, but I could never live in a predominately conservative community again. Been there, done that. I do understand from a friend who grew up in grand rapids that there is a strong conservative dutch population, but he said overall, it is becoming more open minded.
Never come to West Michigan if you are looking for progressive thinking. It's more progressive than it once was, but still overwhelmingly conservative.
All in all it seems to me like Ann Arbor would better suit what you are looking for.
I agree with ARPARP. I went to school in Ann Arbor, MI and moved to West Michigan for a job. I am used to more diversity, open-mindedness, and a liberal environment. In my opinion, Grand Rapids is pretty far from diverse and cultured. The population is mostly Caucasian and conservative (and religous). There is a small black and hispanic population, but they are mostly concentrated in certain areas. I am a huge foodie and the one thing I miss the most about East Michigan is being able to get great ethnic food. There are a couple of authentic mexican restaurants here, but you'll mostly find your regular burger joints, beer pubs, and chain restaurants. I'm also a big fan of quality, fresh food (fish, cheese, etc) and can't seem to find anywhere to get it.
I don't really follow art but I don't think it's a big focus in Grand Rapids, other than during Art Prize (week long art show all over the city). Ann Arbor definitely has more artist opportunities. However, moving out of Chicago to any city in Michigan is going to be a big change. Nothing compares to a big city in terms of food choices, open minded people, and diversity.
If you ever come and visit, downtown Grand Rapids is the only place with a little "artistry and diversity." Grand Rapids is a great place to raise a family but not my first choice for a young professional. Good luck with your decision.
I agree with ARPARP. I went to school in Ann Arbor, MI and moved to West Michigan for a job. I am used to more diversity, open-mindedness, and a liberal environment. In my opinion, Grand Rapids is pretty far from diverse and cultured. The population is mostly Caucasian and conservative (and religous). There is a small black and hispanic population, but they are mostly concentrated in certain areas. I am a huge foodie and the one thing I miss the most about East Michigan is being able to get great ethnic food. There are a couple of authentic mexican restaurants here, but you'll mostly find your regular burger joints, beer pubs, and chain restaurants. I'm also a big fan of quality, fresh food (fish, cheese, etc) and can't seem to find anywhere to get it.
I don't really follow art but I don't think it's a big focus in Grand Rapids, other than during Art Prize (week long art show all over the city). Ann Arbor definitely has more artist opportunities. However, moving out of Chicago to any city in Michigan is going to be a big change. Nothing compares to a big city in terms of food choices, open minded people, and diversity.
If you ever come and visit, downtown Grand Rapids is the only place with a little "artistry and diversity." Grand Rapids is a great place to raise a family but not my first choice for a young professional. Good luck with your decision.
Seriously? I would say downtown is not very artistic at all, unless you're talking about South Division. Have you tried 1111 Godfrey? Eastown? East Hills? Wealthy Street? For art and food?
Have you tried some of the popular locally owned restaurants? Grove? Trillium Haven? Marie Catrib's? Amore'? The list is quite long actually.
I am looking at a few jobs in Grand Rapids. I don't know much about the area, but from what I've been reading, it appears to be a rather diverse, cultured, medium sized city. I currently live in Chicago, and while I love the cultural advantages of the place, the size and the cost of living have become overwhelming, and I'm ready for a change of scenery.
I grew up in a conservative, religious small town in PA, that was completely void of creative or original thought - so I'm always attempting to avoid that type of place when I consider relocating. Here are some of the things I look for in cities:
Arts Scene: I am a photographer, so a solid arts scene is important. A good art scene also attracts a certain type of person, of which I tend to befriend. Music Scene: I love going to shows, of all kinds. Food: I like all kinds of ethnic foods, and access to good local coffee and beer and farmers markets. Nature This is pretty self explanatory. Grand Rapids is in a beautiful place, so access to being outside will not be a problem! Within the city, are there lots of parks and trails, ect? Diversity It appears from the demographics that GR is rather diverse. Progressive thinking I am not one who will move to a place for the sole reason that it is known to be liberal, but I could never live in a predominately conservative community again. Been there, done that. I do understand from a friend who grew up in grand rapids that there is a strong conservative dutch population, but he said overall, it is becoming more open minded.
I'd love to hear thoughts on Grand Rapids and the above stated info I mentioned.
Thanks!
With all due respect, unless there's some compelling social or career reason for staying in the upper Midwest, I would give some serious consideration to places like Austin, the Pacific Northwest, Charlotte or the NC Triangle region, maybe even San Diego. There's a lot of leeway in between a city the size of Chicago and Grand Rapids.
GR does an admirable job for a town its size. I would fear that coming from a place like Chicago, GR would quickly seem an awful lot like your hometown in short order. Again, no slam but the very bullet points you highlight are, in my humble opinion, the weakest attributes of this area.
I expect some blow-back in this assessment (which that in itself may tell you something) but I would suggest you book a cheap flight out of O'Hare or Midway (something we have a hard time doing at GRR) and get out and explore a bit more of the country.
I agree with ARPARP. I went to school in Ann Arbor, MI and moved to West Michigan for a job. I am used to more diversity, open-mindedness, and a liberal environment. In my opinion, Grand Rapids is pretty far from diverse and cultured. The population is mostly Caucasian and conservative (and religous). There is a small black and hispanic population, but they are mostly concentrated in certain areas. I am a huge foodie and the one thing I miss the most about East Michigan is being able to get great ethnic food. There are a couple of authentic mexican restaurants here, but you'll mostly find your regular burger joints, beer pubs, and chain restaurants. I'm also a big fan of quality, fresh food (fish, cheese, etc) and can't seem to find anywhere to get it.
I don't really follow art but I don't think it's a big focus in Grand Rapids, other than during Art Prize (week long art show all over the city). Ann Arbor definitely has more artist opportunities. However, moving out of Chicago to any city in Michigan is going to be a big change. Nothing compares to a big city in terms of food choices, open minded people, and diversity.
If you ever come and visit, downtown Grand Rapids is the only place with a little "artistry and diversity." Grand Rapids is a great place to raise a family but not my first choice for a young professional. Good luck with your decision.
Ann Arbor isn't more diverse than GR. Have you looked at the percentages from the census? (GR - here, AA - here) All in all they're both fairly standard for mid-sized, Midwestern cities. Even suburban Wyoming and Kentwood stack up well against Ann Arbor.
I'm sorry, but all anyone has been saying on these threads is "Meh, GR isn't very diverse" and I think some actual data might help.
Don't take this the wrong way, but I think Ann Arbor's (mostly self-defined) image as this cultural and progressive bastion is overrated. Just a personal opinion. It is a really cool town, though, don't get me wrong.
And as for GR's arts, the GR Symphony conducts over 400 performances a year. GR Ballet is the state's only professional ballet company. Opera GR is the only professional company aside from Michigan Opera Theater in Detroit and is actually older. Check out a local show at Actors, Dog Story, or Wealthy St Theaters. Maybe none of this stuff floats your boat, but it's misleading to say all of GR's culture is just Art Prize, Art Prize, Art Prize.
And as for GR's arts, the GR Symphony conducts over 400 performances a year.
Actually, you make an excellent point here, the GR Symphony is an outstanding orchestra. Some purists might pooh-pooh their live to projection performances, but fact of the matter is there are maybe two or three in our country and only a handful in the world that do film programs like that. The list is very short. You're talking New York, London, Munich, those type of places. I've had the great pleasure of seeing nearly every one of those performances and they do world-class work. Had an opportunity to speak with a musician afterward and they indicated doing live projection is the most difficult performance they undertake, made even more difficult by doing so without a 'click track' on headphones. Mind boggling hard to do.
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