Heating cost, rent estimate? (Grand Rapids, Kentwood: for sale, real estate market, apartment)

[changbo]

For a three person family, may I get an average heating cost estimate for a 4000 square foot home for the winter months?

Also, if we assume no one lives there during the winter, what is the minimum temperature one must leave the heat on so that infrastructure such as pipes don't burst? And how much does this translate to heating cost?

Finally, this being in Cascade, is it hard to rent it out? In this township most houses are owned rather than rented. Not sure which type of people would want to rent this, and how much.

Thanks.

[mich2fla]

Originally Posted by changbo

For a three person family, may I get an average heating cost estimate for a 4000 square foot home for the winter months?

Also, if we assume no one lives there during the winter, what is the minimum temperature one must leave the heat on so that infrastructure such as pipes don't burst? And how much does this translate to heating cost?

Finally, this being in Cascade, is it hard to rent it out? In this township most houses are owned rather than rented. Not sure which type of people would want to rent this, and how much.

Thanks.

I live in Cascade township. We live in a 2650 sq ft house with unfinished basement (1,000 sq ft). For our family of 6, we keep the heat down to 62 degrees 24/7 all winter and it comes to about $125/month. It's comfortable for us, our guest freezes so we turn the heat up!

My parents go to FL each winter and they keep their place at 50 degrees. That should be the minimum in case the power goes out for extended time.

As for renting this size house...I can't help you there.

[changbo]

Ah, thanks.

I guess since you mentioned unfinished basement, you don't count the 1000 square feet to make a total of 3650 square feet?

While this house I mentioned is advertised 4000+ square feet, one third of that is the non-walkout basement without windows. It is moderately furnished however.

I wonder if being not a walk-out basement, the insulation is better and one can turn the heat on even lower.

I am inquiring because quite a few people chuckled at the thought of heating a house of this size, and alluded with 'soaring figures' that is prohibitively expensive, in the hundreds to close to thousand.

I being from California have no idea about winter costs. I do like the winter and snow though.

I thought that if it is indeed too much to heat this house, I might as well rent it out even if we get it eventually.

Originally Posted by mich2fla

I live in Cascade township. We live in a 2650 sq ft house with unfinished basement (1,000 sq ft). For our family of 6, we keep the heat down to 62 degrees 24/7 all winter and it comes to about $125/month. It's comfortable for us, our guest freezes so we turn the heat up!

My parents go to FL each winter and they keep their place at 50 degrees. That should be the minimum in case the power goes out for extended time.

As for renting this size house...I can't help you there.

[magellan]

Originally Posted by changbo

Ah, thanks.

I guess since you mentioned unfinished basement, you don't count the 1000 square feet to make a total of 3650 square feet?

While this house I mentioned is advertised 4000+ square feet, one third of that is the non-walkout basement without windows. It is moderately furnished however.

I wonder if being not a walk-out basement, the insulation is better and one can turn the heat on even lower.

I am inquiring because quite a few people chuckled at the thought of heating a house of this size, and alluded with 'soaring figures' that is prohibitively expensive, in the hundreds to close to thousand.

I being from California have no idea about winter costs. I do like the winter and snow though.

I thought that if it is indeed too much to heat this house, I might as well rent it out even if we get it eventually.

Yes, you definitely wouldn't count the basement square footage if it's not a walk-out. Even if it were a walkout, it's technically not counted as square footage in this area (it has to be clearly separated out in a real estate listing).

A lot depends on the age of the home. We have a fairly new home that was energy sealed, about 2100 square feet, and our budgeted gas bill is about $99/month (evened out so it's the same amount every month instead of higher in the winter). We run the heat at about 68 - 70.

And like mich2fla mentioned, keep your house at about 50 and it should be fine (again, depending on the age of the home and the HVAC system).

No idea on rentals in that area, but I would imagine you'd find someone that doesn't want to buy. I'd check with the HOA before doing it, if the neighborhood has one.

[windfarmer]

Originally Posted by magellan

and our budgeted gas bill is about $99/month (evened out so it's the same amount every month instead of higher in the winter). We run the heat at about 68 - 70.

Magellan are you referring to the budgetwise program (name?) offered through the energy supplier?

If I'm not mistaken, is this the program which allows the homeowner/renter to pay the same amount each month?

thanks.

[changbo]

Really. For all the houses we have viewed, walk-out or not, the basement area is included in the total square footage in the advertisement. Perhaps this is a commonly practiced marketing ploy? The info from government web sites do not usually list square footage or acreage.

I am still debating whether to buy a house or continue renting. It is unfortunate there is no easy way to rent out half of this house, especially since this one does not have a walk-out basement. Considering that it only costs me $450 to rent an apartment, this property with assumed $99 heat cost, $250+ tax, + misc. costs already approaches the rent cost.

But then again, purchasing this gives tax deduction that cancels out the above costs. In the end, I would be paying the ~$1500 mortgage for much better standard of living, compared to the numerous discomfort and noise of this apartment. Betting on real estate market recovering few years later, perhaps it is worth shopping for good deals now.

Anyone have different takes?

[mich2fla]

Originally Posted by windfarmer

Magellan are you referring to the budgetwise program (name?) offered through the energy supplier?

If I'm not mistaken, is this the program which allows the homeowner/renter to pay the same amount each month?

thanks.

Yes...anyone call up and ask to be on the monthly plan.

[mich2fla]

Originally Posted by changbo

Really. For all the houses we have viewed, walk-out or not, the basement area is included in the total square footage in the advertisement. Perhaps this is a commonly practiced marketing ploy? The info from government web sites do not usually list square footage or acreage.

I am still debating whether to buy a house or continue renting. It is unfortunate there is no easy way to rent out half of this house, especially since this one does not have a walk-out basement. Considering that it only costs me $450 to rent an apartment, this property with assumed $99 heat cost, $250+ tax, + misc. costs already approaches the rent cost.

But then again, purchasing this gives tax deduction that cancels out the above costs. In the end, I would be paying the ~$1500 mortgage for much better standard of living, compared to the numerous discomfort and noise of this apartment. Betting on real estate market recovering few years later, perhaps it is worth shopping for good deals now.

Anyone have different takes?

How long are you planning on staying here in Michigan? If you are thinking a couple of years, then you are better off renting. It's a good time to buy but a lousy time to sell. I checked online, there are houses in the FH schools for rent.

If the basement is finished, it can be part of the sq ft.

Good luck!

[magellan]

Originally Posted by mich2fla

How long are you planning on staying here in Michigan? If you are thinking a couple of years, then you are better off renting. It's a good time to buy but a lousy time to sell. I checked online, there are houses in the FH schools for rent.

If the basement is finished, it can be part of the sq ft.

Good luck!

Even if the basement is finished, it cannot be counted as the "total square footage" if it is listed with the real estate board, without being categorized as basement finished space.

Here's an example (hopefully the hotlink will work):

http://public.grar.com/public/pubrec...art?MLS=713007

Take a look at the square footage on the far left. ANSI square footage is "above grade". TFLA sq ft is the total including the basement. It has to be separated out.

If you're looking at ads that aren't listed with a Realtor changbo, be careful as to the square footage. To finish off a basement only costs about $30 - $35/square foot tops compared to above grade finished space of at least $100 - $120/sf. In other words, basement finished space is worth less than above grade, even in a walkout.

Also changbo, there are other considerations. If you aren't going to live there yourself, you have to pay Non-Homestead Property Tax, which is about 50% higher than homestead. Honestly, I don't think you'll be able to get the rent you need in that large of a home in Cascade. Try a smaller home in Kentwood or East Grand Rapids, or just make a low offer on a house for sale.

[mich2fla]

Originally Posted by magellan

Even if the basement is finished, it cannot be counted as the "total square footage" if it is listed with the real estate board, without being categorized as basement finished space.

Here's an example (hopefully the hotlink will work):

http://public.grar.com/public/pubrec...art?MLS=713007

Take a look at the square footage on the far left. ANSI square footage is "above grade". TFLA sq ft is the total including the basement. It has to be separated out.

If you're looking at ads that aren't listed with a Realtor changbo, be careful as to the square footage. To finish off a basement only costs about $30 - $35/square foot tops compared to above grade finished space of at least $100 - $120/sf. In other words, basement finished space is worth less than above grade, even in a walkout.

Also changbo, there are other considerations. If you aren't going to live there yourself, you have to pay Non-Homestead Property Tax, which is about 50% higher than homestead. Honestly, I don't think you'll be able to get the rent you need in that large of a home in Cascade. Try a smaller home in Kentwood or East Grand Rapids, or just make a low offer on a house for sale.

TFLA = Total Finished Living Area. If the basement is finished, it will be part of the TFLA.