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We really disliked upstate NY....in my wife's words "all you can get to eat here is a steak or pancakes".
Not everyone cares if they can get Mongolian BBQ delivered to their door at 3am. As a reason for promoting diversity, the availability of ethnic food is a poor one in my opinion. You need very little diversity to supply the workers needed to run a vast array of ethnic restaurants and you can always cook your own ethnic foods if they are that important to you.
I don't know people who moved out of cities to get away from black people. In the 40's, 50's and 60's they already lived in segregated neighborhoods and their kids went to segregated schools. WWII vets wanted single family houses with a little room to go outside. That's why suburbs were built.
Even the 1968 riots didn't change the dynamic. Maybe for some neighborhoods in Detroit, LA. But by then white suburbs were already well established and expanding rapidly.
Segregation was mainly economic, even within the white suburbs. Blacks got left in cities because they were poorer than whites.
There is housing discrimination against blacks and it helps explain why so few blacks live in suburbs. But I believe the major reason is that blacks still are poorer than whites and most can't afford to move into better neighborhoods.
Not everyone cares if they can get Mongolian BBQ delivered to their door at 3am. As a reason for promoting diversity, the availability of ethnic food is a poor one in my opinion. You need very little diversity to supply the workers needed to run a vast array of ethnic restaurants and you can always cook your own ethnic foods if they are that important to you.
We're not even talking ethic foods - just something that doesn't cause obesity, diabetes and heart disease. It also IS an indication of basic education and culture...if, for example, you can buy freshly baked bread.
Last time I looked it was often French and Italians cooking that good bread. White people.
There are many rural areas which are more cultured than others - often those which started that way due to the influence of either colleges or higher-tech industries.
In the end a Good Life is what life is all about, IMHO. Perhaps I'm wrong and the goal is to be surrounded by gates, fences and guard shacks and feel safe? I think that is called prison.
We're not even talking ethic foods - just something that doesn't cause obesity, diabetes and heart disease. It also IS an indication of basic education and culture...if, for example, you can buy freshly baked bread.
Last time I looked it was often French and Italians cooking that good bread. White people.
There are many rural areas which are more cultured than others - often those which started that way due to the influence of either colleges or higher-tech industries.
In the end a Good Life is what life is all about, IMHO. Perhaps I'm wrong and the goal is to be surrounded by gates, fences and guard shacks and feel safe? I think that is called prison.
The only thing that causes obesity is an overused fork.
French and Italians are indeed different. Just as Tanganikans and Nigerians are different. Oriental describes a very diverse set of people.
In other words, you don't have to have different races to have diversity.
Cities usually had their own ethic neighborhoods (is there anyone who doesn't know it?). There was a lot of diversity among whites all by themselves within cities. Woe to the German kid who walked into the Italian neighborhood!
Diversity had nothing to do with white flight. People wanted to live in single family homes with a lawn and garden and cities didn't have them. That why they left.
Diversity had nothing to do with white flight. People wanted to live in single family homes with a lawn and garden and cities didn't have them. That why they left.
Moving to the suburbs and "white flight" are different things. "White flight" was defined to refer to whites moving to get away from blacks. The racial element is part of the concept. I guess you're arguing that "white flight" in that sense never happened, but that's at odds with what loads of white people will tell you about their own motivations.
And the main reason for white flight was crime, especially violent crime. Moreover, it's one thing to have people perceived as dangerous moving into your neighborhood. It's quite another to have them going to school with your precious children.
To distill it down to a two-word rhyme, the reason for "white flight" is "black attack".
We're not even talking ethic foods - just something that doesn't cause obesity, diabetes and heart disease. It also IS an indication of basic education and culture...if, for example, you can buy freshly baked bread.
I'd say it's an indication of socioeconomic class. Affluent people can afford freshly baked bread. Someone trying to stretch their EBT food dollars is going to buy mass market grocery store bread because it's far less expensive. Ditto things like fresh organic produce. It's expensive compared to canned/frozen vegetables. If you live in a poor area, you likely don't have access to artisanal bread and organic produce. You're in the food desert where bread comes from the 7-11 down the block.
Sure, there's a close link between education and socioeconomic class but it's largely about the money.
Right now, we have two competing demographic models. The single people and couples who don't reproduce all want to live in urban areas. It's easy to get to work. There is tons going on. Any city with a world class university and a bunch of good professional jobs is seeing gentrification. The other model is the one we've known for the last 70 years. Families with children move to the suburbs.
I think the primary motivation for moving to the leafy suburbs is a mix of public school quality and the quality of your children's peer group. Everybody clamors to live in the expensive towns that are mostly college educated professionals. They're engaged parents who insist their children perform in schools. They care about the peer group their children are around. Since public schools in the US are largely organized by what town you live in, it drives this trend. Anyone living in those places is going to defend that system to the death. I don't think it's a school funding thing. Where I live, the failed urban schools spend more per pupil than the leafy suburbs. It's engaged parents that matter, not how much money is spent. There are lots of related things about quality of life that also matter. Public safety. Upscale shopping and dining. Community amenities. I think most parents would give most of that up to have the better school system and better peer group for their children.
To me, the interesting public policy issue is what to do about the cities and towns that don't have those educated, engaged parents driving their children to excel in their education? The way you break the cycle of poverty and the permanent underclass is through education. Obama certainly made that point many times. It's kind of elitist and draconian but I think the state needs to step in and make up for the lousy parenting. 9 hour school day. 48 week school year. Start school at age 4. Completely revamp how schools work to focus on imparting the values the engaged, educated parents impart to their children. 20 years of that and you might be able to break the cycle.
Moving to the suburbs and "white flight" are different things. "White flight" was defined to refer to whites moving to get away from blacks. The racial element is part of the concept. I guess you're arguing that "white flight" in that sense never happened, but that's at odds with what loads of white people will tell you about their own motivations.
And the main reason for white flight was crime, especially violent crime. Moreover, it's one thing to have people perceived as dangerous moving into your neighborhood. It's quite another to have them going to school with your precious children.
To distill it down to a two-word rhyme, the reason for "white flight" is "black attack".
For my family, moving to the suburbs was for the better public school systems AND for us kids to be around other kids who also planned to go onto to college like it was no big deal. We had no baby mommas in my high school and all of my friends were in traditional families where there were two parents and the children conceived within wedlock. And with the exception of the METCO students, none of the students spoke ebonics. If I had decided to have children, I would also want to raise them in the suburbs and for them not to pick up any urban speak, associate with street smart wannabe tough kids, or to think that being a baby momma is at all acceptable.
Again though, it's not about skin colour, it's about having different cultures, morals, values and work ethics. We have had stupid respect training classes at work. I strongly disagree that everyone has to respect everyone else. Respect is not automatic. IMO everyone needs to ACCEPT those of other cultures, but I am old school and think that respect is something that is earned. So for me, respect has admiration included in the mix. And I just can't respect any co-worker who is a slacker... and unfortunately, there are a lot of them. They just think it so cool to do as little work as possible and still get paid, they just have to stick it to "the man" and I despise them for that line of thought. IMO they are thieves and therefore undeserving of my respect.
Moving to the suburbs and "white flight" are different things. "White flight" was defined to refer to whites moving to get away from blacks. The racial element is part of the concept. I guess you're arguing that "white flight" in that sense never happened, but that's at odds with what loads of white people will tell you about their own motivations.
And the main reason for white flight was crime, especially violent crime. Moreover, it's one thing to have people perceived as dangerous moving into your neighborhood. It's quite another to have them going to school with your precious children.
To distill it down to a two-word rhyme, the reason for "white flight" is "black attack".
In that case white flight didn't happen around here and no one I knew flew. Cities were already segregated. Blacks lived in one part, whites in the others. City schools were actually better that outlying schools. Crime was not an issue since there was none.
I remember walking home from Sunday school one day when I was 5 - 6. I went right through Troy's black neighborhood, in my Sunday finest, and it was no problem. "Black violence" was no issue at all.
But when they built the Northway (I-87 north of Albany), people moved to Saratoga County in droves. Houses on 1/2 acre lots were cheap and everyone wanted one. They moved to something, not away from it.
I think it is more related to the lifestyle habits than to the race. I would prefer living in the area where there are no underwear hanging from balconies, or where there is no permanent curry smell in the air, or where there's no loud music coming from open windows and from parked cars. I enjoy going to Chinatowns, but I don't want to live in them. When dominating style in the neighborhood changes, people flee. They will enjoy working with their colleagues of all colors and religions, but having their evening/weekend time in the area that feels alien? No way they will stay there.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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Flight requires economic ability to leave. Most large cities have a very poor White neighborhood where people couldn't afford to move away and they stayed despite increased problems after the 1960s. In my metro area the Portland neighborhood is that place, it's just as poor as anywhere else on Louisville's West End. I've known a few people from there and they give other reasons for why they stay but in reality it's mostly about lack of ability to leave. Many live in homes that are paid off.
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