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I would like to respond as a family that moved from an urban area, to a very rural area. It wasn't about race, as we are a mixed race couple. It was about the horrible schools, horrible traffic, and sky high real estate. We moved from Jacksonville, FL, to Helena, MT. The final straw for us was when our 3rd grade son was sucker punched in school. We had a meeting with the child's mother, who said it wasn't her fault that my son couldn't take a punch. After the meeting, the principle actually defended the mother because her husband was in prison and she was raising 3 boys by herself. We were sick and tired of people using everything under the son as an excuse for their children's horrible behavior. Even in Elementary School there were constant fights. Our property taxes had been increased 3 years in a row, with another increase imminent. It would take me 1 hour a 15 minutes to drive 30 miles to work, however property around my job was so expensive we couldn't afford to move closer. The only way to beat the system was to escape.
When we got to Montana, we were shocked at the low real estate prices and low property taxes. Our children are excelling in school, the class size went from 45 students per class, to 20. And the best thing, the pure ignorance of the permanent welfare class is gone. There are ton's of stay at home mothers here. Most parents are actively engaged in their children's education.
I would like to second the opinion that education is the key to success. The other key is a family that is supportive of their children and doesn't poison their mind with prejudice and ignorance. My wife is from Harlem, NY. She grew up in a project building. She was literally raised on welfare. She escaped because she has an awesome Mom who supported her education. She was never taught to blame other people for her situation. She has cousins that were taught the victim mentality, and they still live in the same projects they were raised in. They all dropped out of high school. They work menial jobs, barely make any money and all, and blame the entire world for their misfortune.
The United States is a large and beautiful country, and any of you struggling to get by in the city, I implore you to find a nice rural area and get out.
I know this is a pretty controversial topic, but I think this is perhaps the best place to talk about a topic like this, due to the anonymity (which encourages uninhibited opinions for better or for worse). It probably wouldn't be a topic discussed amongst a diverse crowd.
This is something that has irked and interested me for a while. It seems as though once one race begins moving in, another race begins moving out after a "tipping point" of some sort. It doesn't seem to do with the income levels of people moving in, either. I will give a few examples I'm familiar with.
2. South suburban Cook County, IL (Where Chicago is located)
The south suburbs were mainly white during the 1960s/1970s/1980s, when white flight was all the rave. Then, something happened. As south side communities began having major issues, upwardly mobile blacks began moving to the south suburbs, in search of a better life for their families. The area was integrated for a while, but the overall result has been white flight. For example, Flossmoor, which was once considered one of the most exclusive south suburbs, has changed from ~65% white to 44% white, and the black population has increased from ~20% ~45% in ten years. There doesn't appear to be any stabilization, either. Income levels the same, crime rates the same, schools are still pretty solid, but the people living here are different. Why does this happen?
It's not just a white/black thing, either. In many parts of southern California, whites are moving from areas with large Hispanic populations. Many cite this due to the "dumbing down of schools" to cater to ESL students. I'm not too familiar with areas with upper-income Hispanic-dominated neighborhoods, but Miami & L.A. come to mind.
Even in some parts of Silicon Valley in northern California, whites are beginning to move from heavily Asian populated areas. This one really confounded me since, generally speaking, Asians are well integrated. They do well in school, have high incomes, etc. It's a recipe for a desirable neighborhood, but whites are leaving.
Article: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113236377590902105.html
My initial thought is that, despite income, crime, and other factors, most people tend to want to live around people that look like them. But that can't be the entire picture, because in places like Oak Park, IL & Shaker Heights, Ohio, people of different backgrounds live together fine (or at least seem to). There is no flight of any sort. What makes these areas stay diverse compared to other areas? There's no obvious "flight."
At the end of the day, we are stronger united than divided. I'm not singling out white flight. California is experiencing "black flight" as well, as hispanics move into formerly black areas such as South Central, and some of L.A.'s suburbs to the south. Again, I don't think that it's impossible to live together. I think we all want the same thing: the best for our family. We're united by that. I think the difference comes in HOW we get the best for our family. Do people of different races see "best" as seeing other successful individuals of your race? What if you see "best" for your family as knowing that in America, EVERYONE can succeed? Is this de facto segregation wrong, or is it justified? If de facto segregation is the norm, what happens when someone from a different race wants to move in, based on their definition of "best?" Is it accepted, why or why not?
I would love to hear from those that "flighted" and why. The good, the bad, the ugly. I am really looking forward to this debate!
I think the example of PGC is an exceptional one and does not represent a majority of black area demographics in the country.
In general, upscale or middle class white dominated areas are well governed, kept neat, clean and well maintained with good schools and comparitively lower crime rates where you find a higher number of tax payers.
These are generally a more desirable places to live bybmany families regardless of their race and ethnicity.
There are many such areas in contrast to a comparatively remote example of PGC.
Usually drugs and crime rate starts to go up when blacks start to move into such areas. I think some whites may think that it's not fair to punish the tax payer and reward the lazy when "subsidized housing" is introduced in the name of diversity.
Perhaps they don't want such diversity where the value of their real estate and school ratings go down, and crime rate goes up, and an increased probability of violence puts a question mark against the safety of their kids and families etc. Perhaps this could be one of the reasons of white flight? I don't know.
I do understand and support those blacks who want to move out of the hood for the safety of their kids and dont like to live that life style, but in many cases, they bring the baggage with them when they manage to find a spot somewhere else.
Am I saying whites don't do drugs and commit crimes? Absolutely not!
I am comparing a general scenario of a middle class white suburban area compared to black dominated down towns.
And I know that there are many, many hard working, tax paying and law abiding blacks all over the country. I appreciate and applaud them.
I recently sold my house after a new neighbor moved in next door. This was a mid/upper class white sub-urban area with one of the lowest crimes rates in the country and very good public schools.
She put a 6 feet high wall type wooden fence around the backyard (that I had no problem with) but we would continously hear a very loud dog barking. I never saw her take the dog out for a walk, a single mother of two who would continously have guests that smelt like weed and there was a hood type party scene every other weekend. The absolutely lovely front yard decorated by the previous owners, looked like trash within a few weeks.
Did I care that she was the only black in our street, matter of fact, in our subdivision? No.
Matter of fact, she was a very good person with a professional job. I helped her moved furniture around her house. And a couple of times she subtly complained that it was challenging for a black person to live among whites - and I felt for her.
I simply didn't want to live next to the "baggage" she uninteionally dragged with her.
If this is diversity then frankly speaking, I am not a whole lot interested.
Two other houses in the street were put on sale after we moved out.
Last edited by GoCardinals; 02-07-2017 at 03:00 AM..
Where I live there's definately a pattern happening lately, older white people passing or going into nursing homes, their house goes on the market and gets bought by blacks, then shortly after that surrounding houses also go up for sale as the remaining whites try to get out.
I'll be honest here, there are a lot of things black people do that just simply annoy most white people...
(1) Generally, blacks are noisier than most whites, I own rental houses in black neighborhoods, and I can often hear people talking in yards 2 or 3 houses up the street.
(2) Black people like bright colors and will often paint their houses bright yellow or even purple. This is a BIG turn off to most white people I know.
(3) Black people often park their cars sideways across the front lawn instead of in the driveway, I'm assuming to show off their 24" rims. The lawn doesn't last long, and eventually turns to bare dirt due to the vehicle traffic.
(4) Black people often have large get togethers and BBQs in the front yard (usually results in #1 listed above).
(5) Many blacks have never owned a home before, and do not understand basic home maintenance. They do not understand things like making sure gutters are kept clean, or making sure the walkway gets edged, etc..
(6) Blacks tend to have those loud boom systems in their cars that rattle windows as they go by.
(7) Blacks tend to hang out on the front porch a lot, it doesn't matter the weather or the time of day, there's almost always someone out there. I know some will say it's a silly compliant, but it looks trashy to see the front porch always cluttered up with plastic lawn chairs.
Now, I know this isn't every black person, I know some who live in very nice well kept homes, but unfortunately where I live it's not the norm. I also know some trashy white people, but those people usually aren't eager to move into well kept neighborhoods. I'm sure many of the things I listed above are why a lot of newer subdivisions have HOAs, they won't admit it, but it's true.
I'm so embarrassed to be a white person after reading some of the responses. How can you generalize a whole race by the few dozen people you've met? Go into a poverty white majority area and you will see a lot of the same issues.
It's like Papa Pope told Olivia, black people have to work twice as hard for half as much.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
11,974 posts, read 25,483,414 times
Reputation: 12187
Quote:
Originally Posted by southernnaturelover
Where I live there's definately a pattern happening lately, older white people passing or going into nursing homes, their house goes on the market and gets bought by blacks, then shortly after that surrounding houses also go up for sale as the remaining whites try to get out.
I'll be honest here, there are a lot of things black people do that just simply annoy most white people...
(1) Generally, blacks are noisier than most whites, I own rental houses in black neighborhoods, and I can often hear people talking in yards 2 or 3 houses up the street.
(2) Black people like bright colors and will often paint their houses bright yellow or even purple. This is a BIG turn off to most white people I know.
(3) Black people often park their cars sideways across the front lawn instead of in the driveway, I'm assuming to show off their 24" rims. The lawn doesn't last long, and eventually turns to bare dirt due to the vehicle traffic.
(4) Black people often have large get togethers and BBQs in the front yard (usually results in #1 listed above).
(5) Many blacks have never owned a home before, and do not understand basic home maintenance. They do not understand things like making sure gutters are kept clean, or making sure the walkway gets edged, etc..
(6) Blacks tend to have those loud boom systems in their cars that rattle windows as they go by.
(7) Blacks tend to hang out on the front porch a lot, it doesn't matter the weather or the time of day, there's almost always someone out there. I know some will say it's a silly compliant, but it looks trashy to see the front porch always cluttered up with plastic lawn chairs.
Now, I know this isn't every black person, I know some who live in very nice well kept homes, but unfortunately where I live it's not the norm. I also know some trashy white people, but those people usually aren't eager to move into well kept neighborhoods. I'm sure many of the things I listed above are why a lot of newer subdivisions have HOAs, they won't admit it, but it's true.
I live in a working class White neighborhood and you could all the same points about the White people here. I was raised fairly poor but my family wasn't trashy. Where I live now has boggled my mind. The neighbors across the street constantly get in profanity filled screaming matches (including arguing about who uses drugs more). They do no basic home maintenance but have two brand new Chevy Camaros with custom rims, one has a custom paint job. The people behind let their kids pee off their back deck, including a 16 year old teen boy whose peter I have unfortunately seen several times just looking out the kitchen window. Down the street is an illegal mechanic shop where they sometimes park their cars so it blocks our entire narrow street. They have taken 5 minutes to move a car while I sat there waiting. If I know what I know now I would never have bought this house.
I used to live in a partially gentrified urban neighborhood that was 30% Black (many low income) and I never, ever had any problems like I do here. I won't claim to know what every Black neighborhood is like or tell someone else their experience didn't happen but it's not been mine. My experience was property crime was very high but people were otherwise polite.
I moved from an apartment I loved because, first, I was mugged walking to work & then I was threatened by a darker skinned woman who was twice my size who took my parking spot & asked me what I thought I was going to do about it.
It wasn't only these two things but other things going on in the neighborhood, drugs, etc.
I still miss that apartment but certainly glad I moved.
Where I live there's definately a pattern happening lately, older white people passing or going into nursing homes, their house goes on the market and gets bought by blacks, then shortly after that surrounding houses also go up for sale as the remaining whites try to get out.
I'll be honest here, there are a lot of things black people do that just simply annoy most white people...
(1) Generally, blacks are noisier than most whites, I own rental houses in black neighborhoods, and I can often hear people talking in yards 2 or 3 houses up the street.
(2) Black people like bright colors and will often paint their houses bright yellow or even purple. This is a BIG turn off to most white people I know.
(3) Black people often park their cars sideways across the front lawn instead of in the driveway, I'm assuming to show off their 24" rims. The lawn doesn't last long, and eventually turns to bare dirt due to the vehicle traffic.
(4) Black people often have large get togethers and BBQs in the front yard (usually results in #1 listed above).
(5) Many blacks have never owned a home before, and do not understand basic home maintenance. They do not understand things like making sure gutters are kept clean, or making sure the walkway gets edged, etc..
(6) Blacks tend to have those loud boom systems in their cars that rattle windows as they go by.
(7) Blacks tend to hang out on the front porch a lot, it doesn't matter the weather or the time of day, there's almost always someone out there. I know some will say it's a silly compliant, but it looks trashy to see the front porch always cluttered up with plastic lawn chairs.
Now, I know this isn't every black person, I know some who live in very nice well kept homes, but unfortunately where I live it's not the norm. I also know some trashy white people, but those people usually aren't eager to move into well kept neighborhoods. I'm sure many of the things I listed above are why a lot of newer subdivisions have HOAs, they won't admit it, but it's true.
Wow... Well, I think that covers every stereotype.
Honestly, that description you provide sounds more like how "poor trash" regardless of color lives and acts. The neighborhood in which I live has shifted to a higher black population over the years as the older whites moved on or died off. I honestly don't care, despite being white, and I can't say my life is any different for it. We didn't have a sudden influx of boom-boxes, cars parked on laws, etc. Hell, the worst problem we have with mis-parked cars is from the clowns in the town-home complex up the road (probably mostly white based upon what I've seen) who seem to think the whole surrounding neighborhood is a "spare car parking lot" for their excess vehicles.
As for the rest, I've seen poor people of all skin colors act as described. Heck, the two biggest troublemakers in our neighborhood over the years were one black guy and his sleazy white girlfriend and a pair of white guy thugs and their revolving door of sleazebags that came and went from their place. Aside from skin color, they were interchangeable: sleazy, probably into drugs, boom-boxes, violent, irrational, "ghetto" cars and behavior, etc.
Where I live there's definately a pattern happening lately, older white people passing or going into nursing homes, their house goes on the market and gets bought by blacks, then shortly after that surrounding houses also go up for sale as the remaining whites try to get out.
I'll be honest here, there are a lot of things black people do that just simply annoy most white people...
(1) Generally, blacks are noisier than most whites, I own rental houses in black neighborhoods, and I can often hear people talking in yards 2 or 3 houses up the street.
(2) Black people like bright colors and will often paint their houses bright yellow or even purple. This is a BIG turn off to most white people I know.
(3) Black people often park their cars sideways across the front lawn instead of in the driveway, I'm assuming to show off their 24" rims. The lawn doesn't last long, and eventually turns to bare dirt due to the vehicle traffic.
(4) Black people often have large get togethers and BBQs in the front yard (usually results in #1 listed above).
(5) Many blacks have never owned a home before, and do not understand basic home maintenance. They do not understand things like making sure gutters are kept clean, or making sure the walkway gets edged, etc..
(6) Blacks tend to have those loud boom systems in their cars that rattle windows as they go by.
(7) Blacks tend to hang out on the front porch a lot, it doesn't matter the weather or the time of day, there's almost always someone out there. I know some will say it's a silly compliant, but it looks trashy to see the front porch always cluttered up with plastic lawn chairs.
Now, I know this isn't every black person, I know some who live in very nice well kept homes, but unfortunately where I live it's not the norm. I also know some trashy white people, but those people usually aren't eager to move into well kept neighborhoods. I'm sure many of the things I listed above are why a lot of newer subdivisions have HOAs, they won't admit it, but it's true.
Exactly! When I lived in NC I was shocked at the white people (I'm white) with couches on the porch of their tiny trailer, derelict cars in the front yard and all the other things that were supposed to be black traits that a previous poster listed. It has nothing to do with color, it has everything to do with poverty.
When poor people, no matter what color, start taking over a neighborhood, people move because they don't want that "ghetto element" in their area. They don't want the drugs, drive-by shootings and meth labs either. Even Jesus said "the poor will always be with us". Unfortunately poverty many times leads to drugs, violence, etc. and it doesn't matter if they are white, black, Asian, Hispanic or from Mars.
Where I live there's definately a pattern happening lately, older white people passing or going into nursing homes, their house goes on the market and gets bought by blacks, then shortly after that surrounding houses also go up for sale as the remaining whites try to get out.
I'll be honest here, there are a lot of things black people do that just simply annoy most white people...
(1) Generally, blacks are noisier than most whites, I own rental houses in black neighborhoods, and I can often hear people talking in yards 2 or 3 houses up the street.
(2) Black people like bright colors and will often paint their houses bright yellow or even purple. This is a BIG turn off to most white people I know.
(3) Black people often park their cars sideways across the front lawn instead of in the driveway, I'm assuming to show off their 24" rims. The lawn doesn't last long, and eventually turns to bare dirt due to the vehicle traffic.
(4) Black people often have large get togethers and BBQs in the front yard (usually results in #1 listed above).
(5) Many blacks have never owned a home before, and do not understand basic home maintenance. They do not understand things like making sure gutters are kept clean, or making sure the walkway gets edged, etc..
(6) Blacks tend to have those loud boom systems in their cars that rattle windows as they go by.
(7) Blacks tend to hang out on the front porch a lot, it doesn't matter the weather or the time of day, there's almost always someone out there. I know some will say it's a silly compliant, but it looks trashy to see the front porch always cluttered up with plastic lawn chairs.
Now, I know this isn't every black person, I know some who live in very nice well kept homes, but unfortunately where I live it's not the norm. I also know some trashy white people, but those people usually aren't eager to move into well kept neighborhoods. I'm sure many of the things I listed above are why a lot of newer subdivisions have HOAs, they won't admit it, but it's true.
As others have pointed-out, these conditions (along with crime and gangs) are the things that drive middle-class working people out of some neighborhoods. These conditions are no more exclusive to black people or neighborhoods, the "flight" is exclusive to whites.
Instead of automatically attributing all separation and division to racial issues, it is really driven more by a lack of personal responsibility and pride ...contributed to heavily by generational, government-dependent welfare. It's not working for a living (not race) that produces poverty and a lack of self-respect. It's this lack of respect for self and others (not poverty or race) that turns decent neighborhoods into slums and ghettos.
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