Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
You now counter by comparing me to Lenin and Marx. You bandy words around like "socialism" and "communism" as ad hominem attacks on other posters rather than doing any real thinking. I've generally found these words are crutches for people who aren't very thoughtful. You think that a law which was passed by a super majority of senators and a majority in the House of Representatives does not reflect the will of the majority. Interesting isn't it, that our President was re-elected with a 4% margin over his opponent two years after the passage of this "unpopular law".
I have no wish to continue a dialogue with someone is utterly irrational and does nothing, but engage in name-calling. Have a nice day.
You indulge in name-calling (irrational, fringe, etc) yourself, yet you can't take it when others dish it back to you?
Secondly, if you think like Marx, talk like Marx, why do you get defensive when you're told "you're a Marxist" ? Don't be in denial. Accept who you are.
Just like you should accept that "healthcare as a right" in liberal speak means - a Govt dictate, for you to comply. If you don't, Govt will unleash the most fearsome Agency -- the IRS -- on you.
That's the true color of "healthcare as a right" in liberal's hands.
And no, there is no dialogue -- your mindset does not allow it. However, this is public forum and whatever you say in public will be used to illustrate what you really mean with "healthcare as a right."
I already posted a Comparative Study between US and Canada, so I won't re-post that.
Socialist left-wingers talk about "life is not about dollars and cents", and then they turn-around advocate the British Socialized system for us. Yet, in Britain, where health costs are set by the Parliamentary Budget, that's exactly what they are trying to calculate. How much is one life worth, and how much is another?
Let's whittle it down. I can get behind taxes being for medical care for all Americans. Also, for safe roads and bridges, and of course, defense. I can agree to federal regulations for food quality and medicines, too. There are probably others.
All of these things would be very affordable for billions, or trillions of dollars less than what the government wastes on special interests and non essential spending.
When I rule the world, all spending laws that are enacted would automatically drop away every 5 years and need to be voted upon before they could continue.
I don't know if the current law gives us all a right to healthcare or not. Currently the only people with a right to healthcare are inmates. Maybe the new healthcare law will change that. When you speak of healthcare you are willing to provide for people who arent' paying for it how about health care that people are willing to provide for you then what are you willing to take?
Ironically, these societies had the same debate a few decades ago -- is Healthcare a right for everybody?
One has to ask -- do liberal think-tanks really know what is going on in countries we are trying to emulate? Of course they do.
But this isn't about healthcare, is it?
Being that you're bashing fringe liberals yet posting fringe conservative articles don't you think that maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle? Not a whole lot of distance between a moderate Democrat or Republican. They're just not in fashion...
Being that you're bashing fringe liberals yet posting fringe conservative articles don't you think that maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle? Not a whole lot of distance between a moderate Democrat or Republican. They're just not in fashion...
PDF I linked to was sourced from the European Commission. EU Employment and Social Situation, Quarterly Review. It's an official document.
Second link was a Report from The Guardian, a major newspaper in England, 3rd most read online newspaper in the world. The Guardian identifies with Social Liberalism, and openly endorses Liberal Democrats.
I personally never liked the slogan -- "truth is somewhere in the middle." Often it is not. You just follow it where it goes, and "let the chips fall where they may."
Instead of labeling my sources without a clue, why don't you go do your own research?
I already posted a Comparative Study between US and Canada, so I won't re-post that.
Socialist left-wingers talk about "life is not about dollars and cents", and then they turn-around advocate the British Socialized system for us. Yet, in Britain, where health costs are set by the Parliamentary Budget, that's exactly what they are trying to calculate. How much is one life worth, and how much is another?
Thanks for the links. Hopefully the folk who have posted in this thread will read some of these. Health care is a critical problem in this country and the more informed we are the better the chance that we can come to an acceptable resolution.
A bit heavy on the liberal bashing, a bit light on the truth, eh?
Nope
Quote:
You must be one of those people stuck in 1950 where a person with barely a high school diploma could walk down to the local factory and get a solid middle class job just for having a pulse.
You must be one of those pople stuck in 1950 who thinks most people have great middle class jobs and have so much money lying around that they can pay for just those few people who need help with their healthcare.
I know a lot of these middle class people that you think there are so many of, since you are stuck in 1950, who have seen their medical insurance and deductibles rise to the point that now they can't afford it. So now hard working middle class people are going to see their standard of living lowered even further, because they now have to subsidize health insurance for those they do nothing but live off of the backs of the middle class.
Yeah, that makes a lot sense.
Quote:
Finally, you make it sound like everyone is capable of working a middle-to-upper middle class job. NO. And we wouldn't want that anyway
And you make it sound like everyone who is being subsidized by the middle class is a little old lady who can't take of herself or an innocent child or orphan who will be refused medical treatment because the super rich middle class guy, who has so much money, wouldn't just give up a little of his wealth to help.
Quote:
LOL! Sure, and if we gave every penny we possibly could to help world hunger, etc., then we would become a part of the hungry, naked, and homeless population. At any rate, you're just plain wrong about that.
How would you become one of them? I said give what you Could. I didn't say give every cent you had. Scale back your lifestyle...live in a smaller house, no more designer clothes, nice car, going to the salon every month, etc. Take food to the homeless shelter yourself. Invite a homeless person into your home. I mean if you are so compassionate and caring, give up some of your own personal comfort. But liberals aren't willing to do that. They dont want to give til hurts. They want to force everyone else to pay so they can still be comfortable.
Quote:
No one is suggesting that anyone live in poverty in order to help the poor. I didn't say that.
Good. You just want to take more from the middle class, cause after all, the middle class make so much money that they can afford to take care of everyone..make sure everybody has a cell phone, computer, their own home, car, great medical insurance, nice clothes, cigarettes, tattoos, enough liquor, money for McDonald's, gas in the car,college tuition, etc. Yeah sure, the middle class has enough to take care of everyone. The middle class has it made. Life is just one big party for the hard working middle class, so let's make them pay more 1000.00 more for their insurance so I can have insurance.
Quote:
Has anyone else? One of the points I've consistently made, however, is that the biggest complainers are people who already live very well.
If you live so well, what are you complaining about?
Quote:
It's really quite amazing to me that anyone so blessed would spend so much of their time staring across the railroad tracks and growling about the people over there who are sick, poor, and often elderly. What MORE do those well-off people need, and is that need SO important that it must come from the empty pockets of the impoverished and the frail bodies of the sick and old?
There you go again, using th same old tired liberal tactics. Trying to paint conservatives as wanting the old, frail, helpless, orphaned children, etc.to die in the streets. Aren't you ashamed of yourself for saying such misguided and misleading things? Stop watching MSNBC and talk to people. No one I know, and I mean no one, feels that way about the helpless. It is the people who thumbed their noses at education, the people who do nothing constructive for society, the people who don't try but expect others to take care of their children, the people who do nothing but smoke, drink, party, lay around all day, the people who have multiple kids by different men, it is these people that the middle class is tired of supporting.
Quote:
Heh, you act like America is the only country that has a lot of immigrants. Europe is being flooded with people from the middle and far east. The only immigrants we really get are people south of the border - because hey, it's a lot easier than sailing across the Atlantic or Pacific. I'm sure most of them would MUCH rather go to a nation with universal health care, but you have to take what you can get unless you have a large boat and know how to navigate the oceans.
Hey, since The European economy is doing so great and healthcare there is so wonderful, let's be like them. After all, no Europeans come here to get treatment. But a lot of Ameicans are waiting in line to become citizens of Europe. I mean, you would have it so much better over there.
And you're right about the big boat and all. Plus, they might even have to show proof of citizenship or get a visa or something over there, and who wants to go through all of that nonsense. I mean, why go to all of that trouble when you can just walk right over, have your baby here, get free baby care, plus your baby is now a U.S. citizen and can get a nice free education, healthcare, and other entitlements. Plus they can vote in elections too. Because we would never stoop so low as to ask anyone for an I.D. before they vote. We wouldn't want to seem insensitive or hurt anyone's feelings. They would probably have to show an I.D. To get on that boat to Europe, and that would be another hassle. So yeah, you're right, they should just take what they can get over here. It wouldn't be worth all of that hassle to go to Europe, even with that Awesome healthcare they have over there.
Heck if you are in the US, then nothing seems to be your right.. UNLIKE other countries....
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
