Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
IF you don't like the pollution of the city, move to the country.
There you will only have to deal with cars and trucks (and maybe the occasional wood stove).
No pollution, unless you don't like the smell of chicken manure on gardens.
Of course, if you move to the country, you will be dealing with cow farts, which are much worse pollutants than cars and trucks combined.
And smokers, for that matter.
Indeed, they are so bad, that the Obama Administration is attempting to tax cow farts. Once they figured out they couldn't make cow farts cease . . . they just decided to tax 'em (same as the gubment did with cigarettes).
Yeppers.
So I guess we are all just sh$t outta luck . . . those horrible cigarette puffing cancer inducing smokers in the city . . . or the even worse methanol-emitting black angus cows out in the country.
Die of second hand smoke or cow farts. Your choice.
PS> Or die of heart disease brought on from stress of worrying about what's gonna kill ya. Cause trust me <news flash> we are all gonna die, eventually, from something -- no matter where we live.
Let me refer you, savina, to the second sentence of your argument as to the issue of drinking and driving. You know, the one in which you state ,"But that is illegal." And there you have the big hole in your argument against cigarette smoking. It is NOT illegal.
The Tobacco Lobby is a very strong one and the taxes accrued from the sale of cigarettes is a big benefit to the government. When the legislature decides to ban cigarettes, not just smoking them in specific places but an outright ban on cigarettes, you can anticipate a hellacious increase in your taxes. There will be tobacco farmers put out of business. There will be the businesses that hang and cure the harvested tobacco. There will be the auctioneers who are responsible for the sale of the cured tobacco. There will be the manufacturers of the paper that wraps the cigarettes, not to mention the manufacturers of the packages. The shippers that transport the finished product to the warehouses that store and re-ship the product to the stores that sell the product and the maintenance people whose job it is to sweep up the butts that uncaring smokers throw on the sidewalk. All of these people, employed somehow in the cigarette industry, will no longer have jobs in that industry and in addition to the revenue (quite substantial) from the manufacture and sale of the cigarette, there will now be less tax money flowing into the government coffers (Yes! a pun!) now that all those ex-employees of the industry will not be paying income tax.
If and when the government decides it is in your best interest to declare cigarette smoking illegal, rest assured that will not be the end of cigarette smoking. I have a sense that you are too young to remember Prohibition, the act that pronounced the sale of alcohol to be illegal. That didn't fly.
May I suggest that you hang on for a while longer. The number of smokers has gone down in recent history, partly because there are fewer people starting the habit; there are more people quitting because the "it's not good for you" message has penetrated or because they can no longer afford the habit; and finally, because all that toxicity will cause the remaining offenders to die off and you will no longer have to walk down the street breathing in all that smoke.
This message brought to you by an ex-smoker.
Quote:
Originally Posted by supersavina
I know. People will continue doing something asinine if their minds are suited for it, even if they must go great lengths to accomplish this.
The positive change should happen at an individual level.
I'd like to point out how often what you just said is said in any debate against something unequivocally bad. In my experience, wearing animal fur, eating meat, and smoking cigarettes. Rather than coming up with a lucid, respectable argument, you simply trivialize the opponent by saying something (always ending with a laugh) like:
"I'll go smoke a pack in honour of this" , or "I'll wear my fur coat out today in honor" or the classic "meat tastes good"*
* Yes, I just brought up unrelated issues, but merely to illustrate the prevalence of the trivialization tactic you have just exercised
Another weak response, which cannot even be considered an argument.
I think my post, see it quoted above, was a rationalization of why smoking will not be outlawed in the USA. It was not a "trivialization tactic", it was clearly reasoned as to the other side of the debate in which you wish to engage. It was neither "frivolous" nor "foolish". I did not address fur, meat or any other issue besides smoking, which is what you're on about, isn't it?
You came here to proclaim your distaste for cigarette smokers who let the similarly distasteful smoke waft your way. I told you why smoking is allowed. No straw man, no slippery slope. Just the facts, ma'am.
Of course, smoking isn't good for you. We didn't know that back in the day when everybody did it. Good Lord, the DOCTOR smoked as he was writing a prescription for your bad back or your migraine headaches!
Yes, as you insist, smoking will cause illness and shorten your life. I smoked for 55 years. I grew up with parents and step-parents all of whom smoked. I married two smokers. We smoked in the house around the children - all five of them. They probably "smoked" as many cigarettes as I did!
I quit almost 10 years ago. I'm now 78. My eldest son is 60. The others are 59, 58, 49 and 41. No smokers. Because smoking will kill you. I read that on the internet.
The boroughs of NYC has single family homes. So should the owner not be allowed to smoke in their own homes? How about outside in their yards? 60/100 lots. Their neighbors might get a whiff of their smoking too? They WILL DIE from that! They might even be smoking parked in their CARS with the windows open. Oh, no.
While you are at is how about charcoal grills in backyards? ONLY cigarette smoke is bad? What about a backyard wood burning smoker? HARMLESS in comparison to cigarette smoke???? Of course, all other smoke is just fine, it is only cigarette smoke that YOU will DIE from.
The moral of the story is that you dealing with cigarette smoke is a minute percentage of your day. It probably doesn't even happen every day. It's a little strange that you are this upset by something that happens rarely. I do not like it when people smoke while they're walking because I get stuck in a never ending trail of smoke. However, I'm not going to outlaw public smoking or come on a forum & complain endlessly about it. What I do, if I can, is cross the street.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-20-2014 at 06:34 PM..
Reason: Removed deleted quote
I think my post, see it quoted above, was a rationalization of why smoking will not be outlawed in the USA. It was not a "trivialization tactic", it was clearly reasoned as to the other side of the debate in which you wish to engage. It was neither "frivolous" nor "foolish". I did not address fur, meat or any other issue besides smoking, which is what you're on about, isn't it?
You came here to proclaim your distaste for cigarette smokers who let the similarly distasteful smoke waft your way. I told you why smoking is allowed. No straw man, no slippery slope. Just the facts, ma'am.
Of course, smoking isn't good for you. We didn't know that back in the day when everybody did it. Good Lord, the DOCTOR smoked as he was writing a prescription for your bad back or your migraine headaches!
Yes, as you insist, smoking will cause illness and shorten your life. I smoked for 55 years. I grew up with parents and step-parents all of whom smoked. I married two smokers. We smoked in the house around the children - all five of them. They probably "smoked" as many cigarettes as I did!
I quit almost 10 years ago. I'm now 78. My eldest son is 60. The others are 59, 58, 49 and 41. No smokers. Because smoking will kill you. I read that on the internet.
Yes, I am well aware that the forces to keep cigarette smoking not only legalized, but widely practiced, are extremely strong.
To reiterate what I wrote in my first post:
I know it will be a long time, if ever, the general public is to come to the 'duh' moment that cigarette smoking was never a good idea, for themselves or for anyone.
I do not feel it should be up to the government to make exposure to second hand smoke less prevalent than it is now.
Nope, I wasn't alive in the 1920's (I bet you weren't either...), but from what I've heard, the main lesson of the Prohibition is that people tend to do whatever they want, even if they must go extreme lengths to do it. This plays out here in Vancouver every day. People everywhere I go in the city completely ignore established bylaws that are in place to prevent people standing/waiting at bus stops, and people inside establishments (which, since they are enclosed, exposure is more concentrated). Is there any visible enforcement to remedy this situation? Nope. So truly, I feel that people need to come to the common sense realization that they should stamp out their butts once and for all, for themselves and for their fellow city dwellers.
Wake up and smell the potential of clean (er) air.
Last edited by supersavina; 06-20-2014 at 03:25 PM..
I don't agree so much with the sentiment, I'm not a regular smoker at all yet I enjoy the very occasional cig or hookah, smoke on the street doesn't bother me much, and I actually enjoy hanging out in a smoky bar once in a while. I also think the "problem" (if you want to label it that) with tobacco / nicotine is the usage pattern (as in, all day every day forever rather than as an occasional treat once in a while), not the substance itself.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-20-2014 at 06:35 PM..
Reason: Discuss the topic not other posters
I'll be honest for a moment. I'm going to have to give supersavina kudos for:
--a thread with an opening post that actually lays out most / all of the arguments that were then subsequently used in the ensuing posts; read through it again, it's actually impressively comprehensive
--not losing his or her temper despite jerky comments like mine
I don't agree so much with the sentiment, I'm not a regular smoker at all yet I enjoy the very occasional cig or hookah, smoke on the street doesn't bother me much, and I actually enjoy hanging out in a smoky bar once in a while. I also think the "problem" (if you want to label it that) with tobacco / nicotine is the usage pattern (as in, all day every day forever rather than as an occasional treat once in a while), not the substance itself.
But aside from all that, I wanted to give props to the OP for a Pretty Good Thread.
If you do not agree with the sentiment that cigarettes are bad, then you should really open your eyes a little wider. If you do not care to inhale something with over 70 carcinogens that is optional, serves no benefit to society or to individuals, that supports corporations which are greedy and profiting from smokers' addictions and weaknesses, then I think you should think more about the value of life.
Also, cigarette smoke is harmful in any amount. One puff, two puffs, it doesn't matter.
Regardless of how much smoking one needs to do to eventually kill themselves (this happens cumulatively, not instantly), I know that I am exposed to it excessively just running errands, going to work, going to school, etc. and this could very easily be stopped if the perpetrators simply use their noggins (and exercise some willpower).
Yes, I am well aware that the forces to keep cigarette smoking not only legalized, but widely practiced, are extremely strong.
To reiterate what I wrote in my first post:
I know it will be a long time, if ever, the general public is to come to the 'duh' moment that cigarette smoking was never a good idea, for themselves or for anyone.
I do not feel it should be up to the government to make exposure to second hand smoke less prevalent than it is now.
Nope, I wasn't alive in the 1920's (I bet you weren't either...), but from what I've heard, the main lesson of the Prohibition is that people tend to do whatever they want, even if they must go extreme lengths to do it. This plays out here in Vancouver every day. People everywhere I go in the city completely ignore established bylaws that are in place to prevent people standing/waiting at bus stops, and people inside establishments (which, since they are enclosed, exposure is more concentrated). Is there any visible enforcement to remedy this situation? Nope. So truly, I feel that people need to come to the common sense realization that they should stamp out their butts once and for all, for themselves and for their fellow city dwellers.
Wake up and smell the potential of clean (er) air.
From your post No. 13.
Quote:
Cigarette smoking clearly should be banned.
So which is it.....do you want cigarette smoking banned or not?
What about backyard fire pits and campfires? Wood smoke is even more dangerous than cigarette smoke. The particulates are much finer and penetrate deeper into the lungs.
Why shouldn't I be able to go camping to enjoy nature and fresh air without having my lifespan shortened by a neighboring campfire? I want campfires and fire pits BANNED!
And......thefragile is right........there are plenty of legally intoxicated drivers on the road. Have you ever spent an evening in a bar? A high percentage of the patrons sit there drinking for hours at a time.....and then go out to the parking lot, get in their car and drive home.....legally intoxicated.....very few get caught.
Many crimes are committed under the influence of alcohol. Crimes that could impact you walking down that pristine sidewalk you dream of. A car driven by someone intoxicated could mow you down or a man full of liquid courage could mug you or drag you into an alley, rape you, slit your throat........or sneak up on you right in your own home while you are in a deep, wine fueled sleep.
Your life is much more likely to be shortened by someone under the influence of alcohol than by breathing in a random whiff of cigarette smoke on the sidewalk.
So, I have to wonder why you don't want alcohol banned. Oh wait........then you couldn't get a little tipsy every night.....and you like that.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-20-2014 at 06:35 PM..
Reason: Removed color font
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I want campfires and fire pits BANNED!
