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This is a refrain I'm hearing so often, I'm getting tired of it.
We have failed our young people in many ways, but the whole business about focusing too much on self-esteem (trophies) has very little to do with it. Its a systemic problem that older people are reluctant to face.
Also, I can state in it real simple terms without having to conduct any psychoanalysis.
The economy is in poor shape and there aren't the number of opportunities for young people that there have been in years past. There that's it. Its no deeper than that. I submit that's the only problem with young people. Elliot Rogers is one person. Making any blank statement about young people based on his behavior is pure silliness
College has become outrageously expensive. The cost of college has risen at a rate roughly 3X the rate of inflation. Borrowing money to go to college now means that a young person may end up owing $50,000 to a $100,000 to earn
a four year B.S. degree. At the same time, job opportunities for college graduates have become fewer and far between. In a country with high unemployment rates, new workers often pay the greatest penalty. Employers will struggle to keep old workers on the job, but they often cut back on new hires and often fail to replace workers who retire.
Opportunity for those entering the labor force does not exist in this country on the level that it did in the 1960's, 1970's, late 1980's and definitely the 1990's.
There are two things we can do about it:
1. We can continue to suggest, as I think you have, that the problem is that young people have "the wrong attitude" and are not prepared for adversity in life; or
2. We can work harder to create an economy that produces more jobs and opportunities for young people.
No. #2 is more complicated than #1. Its going to require modifying our educational system to train young people for jobs that actually exist in the economy as opposed to simply focusing on teaching skills like reading, writing, and arithmetic. Programs may need to be eliminated from colleges that do not lead to eventual jobs. Perhaps, student loans should not be given to students in majors that are unlikely to lead to real employment. Tuition increases at state universities need to be rigidly controlled and rejected at times. Above all, we need to take a look at things like plumbing, electronics, welding, and trades. We need people who have these skills and we are doing a very poor job of directing young people into these areas. We have stigmatized some very valuable skills because they are not taught at a university. If we fix these things, we'll fix much of the problem with young people not having opportunities. But, first we have to realize that that is the problem and than we have to muster up the energy to do something about it.
So, reading between the lines what I'm hearing is that the older generations should be making it easier for the Millennials. No wonder you're tired of hearing that we think you've been coddled and are burdened with a sense of entitlement.
I feel a little frustrated with younger people responding negatively to older folks when we tell you how easy you've got it and you deny that. See, we've been there. All you know is what you've been told. We've watched the educational/social system and the attitude towards the young change for four, five decades or more. We have watched it gradually change. You haven't.
We have something to offer, too, but it is rarely appreciated at the time. Every generation in the history of the world could have benefitted from paying attention to what their elders had to say about what they have learned through trial and error. But most of us don't. We want to do it our own way. And I think that's the way it's supposed to be.
Because the most important life lessons seem to stick better when they are bought with blood, sweat and tears. And you really get it when you are that invested.
No fair blaming the times you were born into. You don't get a choice. None of us did. And every generation has its challenges. You can't compare different eras because of the myriad of interacting factors. What is tough is tough. What was a struggle is a struggle. We all have to play the cards we're dealt.
If I failed my children at all it was that I learned this rather late in my life - it's the struggle that makes you strong and independent.
A postscript. You have no idea how difficult it is to watch your child learn the lessons of your option #1.
entitlement is a great failure to our youth as a whole.
"We deserve a $15 minimum wage for being a dish washer."
"We deserve hot women."
Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-26-2014 at 07:52 PM..
Reason: Unless the thread is specifically about politics references to parties or liberalism/conservatism is off topic
Again, another post that doesn't even deal with the issue that times are harder for new people entering the work force than they have been in the past.
Honestly, what I really see here in this thread is a bunch of people looking to blame Millenials rather than to analyze the real world problems they face.
So, what if "everybody got a trophy"? Doesn't change a thing about the recession this country has been through the last 5-6 years or the additional barriers, such as high education costs, that Millennials face.
Anybody want to talk about the real problems?
Nobody is blaming millenials for anything other than not being realistic. Millenials for some reason seem to think that they're the only generation to have trouble finding jobs once they graduated college. Believe me, this problem has been going on for decades. Sure the job market has oscillated up and down during that time, but for the most part it hasn't been easy for people to find jobs fresh out of college since at least the early 90's.
The reason why many of the posters here continue to bring up the practice of handing out shiny new trophies just for showing up is that it correlates very well with the thinking that some people have [young & old] that 'just because I possess the requisite education & qualifications I should not be having this difficult of a time finding a job'. Some people [again, young & old] seem to have a difficult time coming to grips with the idea that you aren't guaranteed success just because you work hard and do everything you're supposed to do. Hard work certainly helps. But if all it took to guarantee success was hard work then life would be very simple.
There are so many obstacles to get past when it comes to finding decent employment. Do you [not speaking to you directly of course] realize how many applicants one has to compete with when submitting a resume? You are in direct competition with each and every one of those individuals. Think about how many of those applicants never even make it to the interview table. Of the ones that do make it to the interview, each one of them is having to sell themselves to the company in question. The interviewer has to like you personally and professionally. Even then it's not a guarantee that the pool of applicants who've made it that far would be considered a proper fit for the company.
You're right about one thing, the job market these days is very tough. The competition for those jobs is even tougher. From what I see, I can't imagine that the job market is going to be getting a whole lot better in the near future. To improve your competitive positioning you may have to reinvent yourself, you may have to move out of state or even out of the country, you may have look for jobs outside the scope of your college degree. You can do all of these things and still may not find a job...it happens to the best of us. The real world is a tough place.
entitlement is a great failure to our youth as a whole.
"We deserve a $15 minimum wage for being a dish washer."
"We deserve hot women."
I don't see how "we" have failed young adults. Everyone is responsible for the most part for their path in life. Unfortunately, the economy tanked 7 years ago & it's been a struggle to get it going again. It's hard on all of us, not just millenials. I also don't feel that millenials think that they're "entitled" to more. I don't even know what exactly that means or where people are getting that from. Do people feel like they should have a good paying job? Well yeah, we all do. That's not a sense of entitlement. Do they feel like they should have vacation time & balance work with social life? Of course, don't we all? I'm not going to bust my butt working only to turn around & realize I'll be dead in a few years, what's the point? In essence no, we, whoever we is, haven't failed young adults & they haven't failed themselves.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 06-26-2014 at 07:52 PM..
Reason: edited quote
So, reading between the lines what I'm hearing is that the older generations should be making it easier for the Millennials. No wonder you're tired of hearing that we think you've been coddled and are burdened with a sense of entitlement.
I feel a little frustrated with younger people responding negatively to older folks when we tell you how easy you've got it and you deny that. See, we've been there. All you know is what you've been told. We've watched the educational/social system and the attitude towards the young change for four, five decades or more. We have watched it gradually change. You haven't.
We have something to offer, too, but it is rarely appreciated at the time. Every generation in the history of the world could have benefitted from paying attention to what their elders had to say about what they have learned through trial and error. But most of us don't. We want to do it our own way. And I think that's the way it's supposed to be.
Because the most important life lessons seem to stick better when they are bought with blood, sweat and tears. And you really get it when you are that invested.
No fair blaming the times you were born into. You don't get a choice. None of us did. And every generation has its challenges. You can't compare different eras because of the myriad of interacting factors. What is tough is tough. What was a struggle is a struggle. We all have to play the cards we're dealt.
If I failed my children at all it was that I learned this rather late in my life - it's the struggle that makes you strong and independent.
A postscript. You have no idea how difficult it is to watch your child learn the lessons of your option #1.
I think you may misunderstand whom I am and my situation.
I am not a Millenial. I'm a later baby-boomer (born 59'). I've been rather successful in life. I'm a professional with an income in the low six figure range.
Please stop thinking the only one who could disagree with the way you think is a Millenial who is used too, in your words, "being coddled". There are plenty of older folks who are sick and tired of this conservative notion that everyone gets what they deserve in life. Someone entering the job in the Great Depression didn't have the same opportunity that someone entering it in the 1950's or the 1960's did. There's more going on here than just "personal responsibility". Environment is a huge factor in determining both whether one is successful and the degree of success in life. You can "give away all the trophies" you want. It doesn't change that.
Please stop thinking the only one who could disagree with the way you think is a Millenial who is used too, in your words, "being coddled". There are plenty of older folks who are sick and tired of this conservative notion that everyone gets what they deserve in life. Someone entering the job in the Great Depression didn't have the same opportunity that someone entering it in the 1950's or the 1960's did. There's more going on here than just "personal responsibility". Environment is a huge factor in determining both whether one is successful and the degree of success in life. You can "give away all the trophies" you want. It doesn't change that.
This is also true. It is a misnomer to say that everyone who tries to "pull themselves up by their bootstraps" will actually be successful. Success isn't only a function of handwork, luck and connections are also key components.
The problem is, in my opinion, too many people think that showing up and looking good on paper is actually enough.
I'm 36, I think school failed my generation miserably.
-I graduated from high school in 1996. I went to college and majored in finance.
1st - The absurd emphasis on ACADEMICS to the detriment of everything else is a failure. The teacher unions are crazy. They are far too powerful in many cases and too interested in themselves (tenure after a few years on the job? That's not reality). The education world lives in a bubble.
My generation should have been brought up in an educational system grounded in REALITY. The reality is, 60% of students should be geared towards academics and 40% vocational. I would make the k-12 track very, very, very clear. You would know exactly what you're going to get after 12 years in school.
I.e. there wouldn't be any for profit schools or crippling student loans. For profits might make up 2% of the college graduating class.
Investigate 4 year colleges HARD. Don't let them slide with fake graduation statistics. You should know the numbers cold. We've allowed higher education to turn as soft as butter (i.e. the number of lightweight degrees womens studies, latino studies, etc). Grade inflation. The mismatch between jobs and degrees.
2nd - The curriculum in school is very sloppy and a mishmash of stuff mostly. What are the big stories in the world now? China has the worlds largest economy! What time was devoted to foreign countries or world events in k-12? About zero.
The big stories now are....globalization, the digital economy, healthcare, the (coming) demographic crisis, income inequality, climate change, peak oil? Lots of big topics. None of them were really covered at all in school. I think that's an absolute failure. I don't think they did their job very well.
There's a housing crisis in this country in many cities. There was no discussion of that at all.
-I don't think the problem has to do with getting a trophy. In many cases the system has gotten corroded and soften up.
I.e. look at law school. Does it really pay off? Do incoming students really know the demand for law jobs after graduating? Or are the numbers fudged and stretched? Have people looked the other way when there are more incoming students than jobs afterwards?
I think higher education has definitely turned into more of a business vs previous generations. We need tight STANDARDS if that's the case.
I think 1/3 or 1/2 of colleges would be out of business if we really tightened up. They've become country clubs. If we streamlined things, young people under 35 would have a lot more money in their pocket.
Then if you start means testing retirement benefits and social security, closing corporate loopholes (corporate cash holdings overseas is obscene) and simplified the tax code (among other things), you'd start to balance things for those under 35 or 40. Rich people who are 60 or 65 have had it too easy for far too long.
No, they have failed themselves. No one is guaranteed anything, except life, liberty and (keyword here) pursuit of happiness. It is not mine, nor your, responsibility to give anyone anything. It is YOUR responsibility to make your way through life.
I was born on welfare and a black man. Yes, two strikes. Yet, I am 50 yrs old and I make over 6 figures a year. My health insurance paid for, 5 weeks of vacation a year, and I travel all around the world. But I worked for it. No one handed me anything, nor was I raised to expect anything. If I want something, I work for it. Period.
The current generation of people in this country DO NOT have this mindset. Their mindset is they are owed college, owed a job, and owed everything else. You aren't owed anything. Like it or not, life is what YOU make of it. You can become something, or not. Your choice.
They seem to not want to put in the amount of hours necessary to prove themselves. Many quickly take vacation when they should be showing a lot more "face time". There will be plenty of vacation in the future. They wonder why they aren't automatically promoted when a position is open. They also seem to be more concerned about their social life. Many can't seem to break away from their cell phones at work and they need to know how to dress in a more professional manner. Keep the hipster stuff for the weekend.
This is so relieving for me to hear! As a Millennial, I believe the workplace in America needs a complete overhaul. It doesn't exist for the people, for the humanity in the workplace, it exists for making $$. Fortunately, Millennials (for the most part) seem to be "over" the whole concept of making money and being a consumer for the rest of their lives. I am a hard worker, but I don't see the point in drowning myself in work when I could be taking vacations and enjoying my life (and the fact that I'll be laid off in a couple years again anyway!)
It's the workplace that needs to change to be more forgiving of human beings who need time for relationships, family and vacations, it's not the human beings in the workplace that need to transform more into robots to "get the job done"
Just my opinion... I really do hope that's the direction our workplaces are headed.
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