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As others have mentioned forced (systemic) segregation is the bad word (not a good thing) and is the product of social engineer types who most often are not impacted by the very laws in acted.
Voluntary association is a type of natural segregation and akin to Companion Planting in horticulture / ecology. For organic systems to function at optimum, natural balances or complementary dynamics occur.
In simplest terms, people will self segregate (voluntary association) based upon beliefs, culture, behaviors, communication style and values. For example, the Juglans tree species (Walnut) leeches compounds (toxic oils) into the soil which are irritable to other types of plants, and those other plants will not grow well (if at all) based on proximity. This is akin to why certain groups avoid other groups or prefer not to associate with them. Notice I didn't say 'race' because in the vast majority of instances, it is primarily the lack of common acceptable behavioral and communication standards and what each group values. Then there are the small minded bigots which still survive in greater quantities in some areas.
Then there is quasi forced integration that is effective and that can best be seen in military or some structure whereby a strong uniform code of acceptable behavior is the driving force. In essence, a strong merit based system will be the best way to eliminate 'cultural abrasiveness' because, within the construct of the social structure, no deference is made one way or the other. This is the sort of system that helps differing groups come to better understanding of differences and levels of acceptance whether they want to associate with each other or not. In other words, respect, civility and working toward a common cause (whatever that may be).
Then there is quasi forced integration that does a disservice and encourages 'racism' by not having uniform codes of acceptable behavior such as many education systems in todays 'politically correct' world. Making excuses for unacceptable behavior foments more resentment and racism and seemingly is the goal as it keeps masses of lower classes (whom it mostly impacts) fighting with each other.
The biggest problem is the social engineers and political leaders too often take a 'build the voting bloc' approach and cater to victimization, rather than treating each respective individual case on its merits. The former behavior is what needs to stop with extreme prejudice. (Haha, see what I did there?)
Then, you have the mass media which never met conflict or controversy it did not think it could make more money from, and thus you have the potpourri of ridiculousness that is our current time. i.e. "Hate Crime" etc... Crime is crime and should be applied consistently, when it isn't, people lose faith in the legal system.
Result: pitting groups against each other for profit and distracting them from the massive fraud that is the politicians and war economy (military industrial financial complex).
Ask yourself: What other profession has someone spend (or raise) exponentially MORE money to get the job than what the job pays?
Only that which enables massive fraud and theft of taxpayer monies. If the majority of people realized how much they are getting raped by the organized criminal element of government they would stop bickering amongst themselves and focus on those who seek to herd them and farm them.
Last edited by Oldhag1; 04-02-2015 at 08:06 AM..
Reason: Removed icon
When some people hear the word segregation of races that practically jump out of their seat. But I don't see the bid deal about it. Segregation isn't always based on hatred but with some people it might be. Since every race has is racists thinking people and we know that most of those people aren't going to change their views it is foolish to try and integrate them into a mufti-cuttural society where only friction can result. But if those racists people are segregated from the races they hate they won't be in an environment where they can carry their racists views into some kind of racial incident.
Besides that, my being white, I know that white communities are not enhanced in any way by integration. So I not only see no purpose in integration but see harm in it.
So why is segregation so looked down on? It would seem that common sense make segregation the thing that is most wanted.
The problem is that racists don't want to be segregated so much as they want those they are prejudiced against to be segregated. The "baddies" won't just voluntarily go off on an island together - no, they want to take the best land/areas/property for themselves and leave the crap for those they hate. And that's where the problems happen - one group gets the crap...they fail to thrive, not surprisingly and then are further blamed for not succeeding according to the standards of the group given the best set of circumstances to live. We just keep blaming the victims and feeling so smug about ourselves....
Reneeh's right. As practiced, segregation has rarely been about a group of people voluntarily removing themselves from a larger society into their smaller group, and to assume that that's what's meant by the word is at best incredibly naive. Usually throughout history, segregation is imposed by the more powerful on the less powerful, partly out of greed and power, partly out of fear. It was very effective in the United States for keeping blacks down for hundreds of years.
When some people hear the word segregation of races that practically jump out of their seat. But I don't see the bid deal about it. Segregation isn't always based on hatred but with some people it might be. Since every race has is racists thinking people and we know that most of those people aren't going to change their views it is foolish to try and integrate them into a mufti-cuttural society where only friction can result. But if those racists people are segregated from the races they hate they won't be in an environment where they can carry their racists views into some kind of racial incident.
Besides that, my being white, I know that white communities are not enhanced in any way by integration. So I not only see no purpose in integration but see harm in it.
So why is segregation so looked down on? It would seem that common sense make segregation the thing that is most wanted.
In some really strict religions like the orthodox Jews women and men must worship separately. I know any synagogue that has that belief is not going to change it.
The new issue for transgender rights where some places are forcing females to allow males into their bathroom or locker room is one instance where segregation is a good idea and I hope it to continue to stay that way.
Besides that, my being white, I know that white communities are not enhanced in any way by integration. So I not only see no purpose in integration but see harm in it.
You "know" white communities are not enhanced in any way by integration? Seriously?
I don't care what color my neighbors are. Are they decent people? Are they considerate neighbors in general? Do they keep up their property so as not to damage the value of mine? Do they teach their kids right from wrong? Are they law-abiding responsible human beings?
Any race can meet those criteria, and are welcome in my neighborhood any day of the week.
The problem is that racists don't want to be segregated so much as they want those they are prejudiced against to be segregated. The "baddies" won't just voluntarily go off on an island together - no, they want to take the best land/areas/property for themselves and leave the crap for those they hate. And that's where the problems happen - one group gets the crap...they fail to thrive, not surprisingly and then are further blamed for not succeeding according to the standards of the group given the best set of circumstances to live. We just keep blaming the victims and feeling so smug about ourselves....
An interesting way to look at it, and probably somewhat true. Just look at the Sioux overcoming the Pawnee, or the Navajo vs. Hopi.
In terms of 'crap' land being the main target, you can certainly think of other models for 'winning'.
. Take over the property, win! (your example)
. Take over an equally bad piece of property and make it bloom (US southern border vs. Mexico, East vs West Germany, Israel vs Syria/Jordan/Egypt). The next door neighbors then want your land and their land.
. Treat the less aggressive neighbors as prey animals, but let them keep their property. Apaches vs. Mexico is a great example.
You "know" white communities are not enhanced in any way by integration? Seriously?
.
I admit that he should probably quantify that a bit more.
Degradation by having another flavor of people show up probably depends a lot on who they are and on how many there are. There's probably some way to measure that based on increasing cost of social services, crime rates, and average income.
I admit that he should probably quantify that a bit more.
Degradation by having another flavor of people show up probably depends a lot on who they are and on how many there are. There's probably some way to measure that based on increasing cost of social services, crime rates, and average income.
It is entirely dependent on what the new people DO, not the color of their skin.
There are plenty of "white" neighborhoods with large amounts of crime, low income, and government dependency.
Yes, I do prefer to live around people who live honestly and responsibly. That doesn't mean I give a whit about the color of my neighbors' skin.
Things have a way of being self-fulfilling prophecies. If you expect your neighborhood to be degraded because your new neighbor's skin color is different than yours, you probably make less effort to stay involved in keeping your neighborhood a nice place to live. If you desperately want to move because you are blinded by racism, you may sell at a lower price than the market would normally fetch. If you're living with one foot out the door of the area, thinking "uh oh, the ____'s are moving in, I need to get out as soon as I can", again, there goes your sense of obligation to maintain community standards.
When some people hear the word segregation of races that practically jump out of their seat. But I don't see the bid deal about it. Segregation isn't always based on hatred but with some people it might be. Since every race has is racists thinking people and we know that most of those people aren't going to change their views it is foolish to try and integrate them into a mufti-cuttural society where only friction can result. But if those racists people are segregated from the races they hate they won't be in an environment where they can carry their racists views into some kind of racial incident.
Besides that, my being white, I know that white communities are not enhanced in any way by integration. So I not only see no purpose in integration but see harm in it.
So why is segregation so looked down on? It would seem that common sense make segregation the thing that is most wanted.
Racists want segregation. Good decent moral folks want integration.
The idea that minorities have nothing to bring to a community is a racist idea. The idea that we should cater to racists by never making them overcome their bigotry is absurd. Racist individuals shouldn't get to live in a world where they are never around other races. Rather, they should be forced to overcome their prejudice.
The original argument being laid out here is essentially that integration makes communities worse because minorities bring nothing to the table, and racists are more likely to perform racist acts if they are around minorities. In other words, if we know the KKK might burn a cross in a yard, we should ban blacks from living in the area, especially since they don't bring anything of value to the community anyway. That is obviously the wrong response. The right response would be to make it socially unacceptable to be a racist, and if one is a racist, they should be shunned.
Last edited by Wittgenstein's Ghost; 04-07-2015 at 03:22 PM..
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