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Old 04-23-2015, 11:01 AM
 
3,850 posts, read 2,226,099 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escondudo View Post
Probably not a majority, but some would.

Another case in point:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=51tShKUg8QU

It shows a crowd of Haitians begging to become a US territory.
Why don't they ask the French? Wouldn't that make more sense?
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:09 AM
 
73,005 posts, read 62,585,728 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Why don't they ask the French? Wouldn't that make more sense?
And furthermore, France essentially bankrupted Haiti by making the nation pay a debt for its freedom. After going through that, why would anyone want colonialism?

Something else. When U.S troops occupied Haiti during the 1920s, it was rather violent in terms of ruling.
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:12 AM
 
Location: Richmond VA
6,885 posts, read 7,887,329 times
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Not colonialism, capitalism!

Look at the charter school model. Company is hired to run failing school, gets paid by the municipality to do so and meet state standards for education.

Why couldn't a country like Haiti hire a corporation to run their government/business?
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Old 04-23-2015, 11:28 AM
 
Location: USA
31,027 posts, read 22,064,322 times
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"Should we bring back colonialism? "
Like said above, many countries would want colonial rule by the UK or even the US if it brought them out of poverty. Probably not France, Spain or the Ottomans though
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Old 04-23-2015, 12:09 PM
 
Location: (six-cent-dix-sept)
6,639 posts, read 4,572,023 times
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i think that the idea of borders and countries comes from middle ages europe. a lord would govern their manor which were square acres and a grouping of manors would combine to be a shire (or county) ruled by a shire-reef (or county sheriff). a grouping of shires become a kingdom ruled by a king.

that is why many large states are exact square/rectangles. the pueblos didnt say our nation is between the imaginary boundary of 37°n to 41°n. the natives had nebulously defined areas and they prospered. they would have skirmishes and wars with neighboring tribes but extermination was difficult due to equal technology/access to resources.

similar to what i remember of the hutu and tunzi nations. the french/belgiums strategically grouped together these nations during their occupation. these two groups have been warring for hundreds (thousands ?) of years but neither side had the capacity to exterminate the other. the border divided (i think) the tunzi nation so that family on the tunzania side were probably denied entry to visit friends on the inside (anyone play papers please). the strategy was that there would be more infighting between the two nations that the ruling european class could govern and extract resources without resistance from the indigenous.

when the europeans were done extracting minerals... they left one of the groups in power (with control of gign rifles, machetes, food surplus, water, national radio (used to spread propaganda), border control ...) and they now had the capacity to starve the other side out.
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Old 04-23-2015, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Miami, FL
233 posts, read 344,517 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aunt Maude View Post
While I don't think that statement is true, although you can always find outliers, it's an excellent summation of the meme that is passed around in modern days.

It's funny how strong the cult of the destruction of the third world by Europe is. I wonder what the roots of it are.
I think it's because they're unwilling to accept the failures of the local governments in the countries in question.

It's probably also a defensive move against the prejudiced view that non-white people inherently can't govern themselves. BUT...that's not what I'm arguing. This has nothing to do with race. Ghana and Kenya are on the right track, and Nigeria just had peaceful elections, so clearly black people can govern. The question is about the places that aren't moving forward. Some of them need outside help that more money will not give them.
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:26 PM
 
671 posts, read 890,368 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by green_mariner View Post
If a majority of countries are fine with being independent, then maybe the issue isn't with those countries. Maybe it is with those who have a desire to rule over other nations. No one rules over other nations for the benefit of that nation. It does so to take from that nation.

And how many Haitians really want to be a USA territory? Can you prove a majority want this?
It isn't that they want the USA as a culture and a neighbour,,they want the welfare, the freebies like free medical ect. In short only the very poor desire to give up independence...Just getting one or two people to do a you tube doesn't make it so.....
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Old 04-23-2015, 01:48 PM
 
698 posts, read 587,595 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Escondudo View Post
Many third world countries have proven that they are incapable of governing themselves properly. Should we consider reintroducing foreign control over those territories given the following conditions:

1) Voters in the countries would have to vote in favor of foreign control.
2) Voters would have a new referendum every 10 years.
3) The election would have international observers provided by the UN.
Many of those third world countries that you are insulting with your post had their natural resources stolen, large numbers of their people killed or sold into slavery and the indigenous culture/infrastructure destroyed by the previous colonists. The same countries that you think should be allowed to pillage and plunder them again.

Absolutely disgusting.
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Old 04-23-2015, 02:35 PM
 
Location: Minneapolis
275 posts, read 332,116 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tritone View Post
Absolutely not.

...and all current overseas U.S territories should be made independent.



So? Why is that our problem? What right or obligation does the U.S have to govern some other country?

Let them be poor third world countries.
"Let them be poor third world countries"....that's nice.

I'm not saying I agree with the OP's idea, but come on, that comment makes it sounds as people in those countries don't matter. SMH
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Old 04-23-2015, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Jamestown, NY
7,840 posts, read 9,197,833 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aunt Maude View Post
While I don't think that statement is true, although you can always find outliers, it's an excellent summation of the meme that is passed around in modern days.

It's funny how strong the cult of the destruction of the third world by Europe is. I wonder what the roots of it are.
You "don't think that statement is true" but you are going to spout your right wing, revisionist bull manure as if it is. Well, it it's not, and if you had bothered to read a history book on Latin America, Asia, or Africa since you took "A Survey of Western Civilization" in freshman year of college, you might actually know that.

The exploitation and genocide against indigenous peoples by colonial powers has been decried for 500 years, beginning with Bartolomeo de Las Casas who wrote A Short Account of the Destruction of the Indies in 1542, less than half a century after Columbus discovered the New World and claimed most of it for Spain. It's been translated into English and is still in print and available on Amazon.com.
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