Why the Gay Rights Movement succeeded. (brainwashing, Miami, school, compared)

[Unsettomati]

Originally Posted by Macgregorsailor51

Ask John McCain and Even , Dick-em-all Cheney , how hard is it to HATE your own Children..

I guess it's all fun and games ... until one finds out that the people they're scapegoating and marginalizing and oppressing include their own loved ones.

That's why I have a lot more respect for those folks who decided that discriminatory laws that denied equal protection to LGBT persons were simply wrong, and not because they cared about someone in particular that was being harmed by them. That's the measure of human decency, as opposed to someone simply looking out for the individuals they happen to give a damn about.

[workitoutnow]

Originally Posted by AnywhereElse

Churches don't teach hate. That is nothing but nonsense. What you need to be asking is who is making money off the homosexual agenda. The homosexual propaganda campaign in America's media It is my understanding that the porn industry was a major player. So it was having a plan and getting funding for that plan.

They succeeded, if you want to call it that, to have sodomy (anal and oral sex) be lawfully OK, to not allow states to ban two people of the same sex from marrying and by shout outs, homosexuality became not a mental illness associated with suicides, etc.: http://www.behaviorismandmentalhealt...hat-went-away/

Success is in the eye of the beholder I guess. If you consider the right to lawfully commit sodomy, gay marry your same sex partner, shout out at psychiatric conventions in order to get your mental illness overturned then, yes, homosexuals have been successful and the reason is the agenda as mentioned before. Make a plan and work a plan.

Actually, the Religious Right "Made a Plan and Worked a Plan" all throughout the 80's and 90's. That plan was to demonize gay people. The Religious Right came after us with their lies and vitriol. Unfortunately for them, we fought back. If the Religious Right hadn't taken over the Republican Party with their nonsense exclusionary tactics and left us gay people well-enough alone, we may not have made as much progress as we have.

So.....thanks. You can blame the scary "homosexual agenda" all you want, but really, you should have just kept your religion, lies and hate to yourselves.

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by Macgregorsailor51

IMHO.. it took awhile but many of the Organized Churches accepted the FACT that GOD doesnt HATE Anyone and that THEY need to STOP Preaching HATE ... as for Most Republicans being Christians? I dont buy that one.. Pretty Hard for The Moral Majority to Preach Hate with all "immoral crap" they have been caught doing over the years.. I do have to ask? Who was making money off the Hate The Gay Campaign? Thats where Republicans Come into play.. Money off of Hate.. You do know that without enough people to HATE the Republicans could NEVER sell the populous on having The Most Expensive Military In The World X 8!!! Follow the money trail..

Because appeasing and surrendering to the Communists and now the Jihadist Muslims would be so "lovely". Don't be a dupe.

How well do you think homosexual people will fare in an increasingly Islamic world???

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by LogicCircuits

It mainly succeeds because bloodbank screenings and anti-virals prevent gays from killing innocent people with AIDs. People have a short memory and forgot how recently they spread deadly diseases, and how many small children watched their mom die of AIDs from her post-delivery blood transfusion.

Indeed, we were told that we were "haters" because we made the commonsense observation that a "bathhouse culture" of wanton sodomy and promiscuity would destroy itself and would not end well.

Originally Posted by kevxu

It was not an auspicious beginning for high profile, anti-gay campaigning, but shortly the AIDS epidemic became a decade long field day for anti-gay hysteria.

Like I said....

"The LGBT movement was grounded in reality. They stuck to the facts."--Not when it came to this terrible epidemic they didn't. And people needlessly died as a result.

In fairness, a few homosexual people were honest about what was happening. To quote Camille Paglia: "Everyone who preached free love in the Sixties is responsible for AIDS. This idea that it was somehow an accident, a microbe that sort of fell down from heaven—absurd. We must face what we did."

[hbdwihdh378y9]

Originally Posted by Clark Park

From my point of view: the Anti-Gay movement was based on lies. It attempted to demonize gay people. The foundation of Anita's campaign was that gay people were child molesters and mentally defective.

The LGBT movement was grounded in reality. They stuck to the facts. Steadfast and unwavering, they never changed their arguments and showed patient determination.

No. The success of the movement was due to promotion of the agenda by the apparatus of public opinion formation, including plenty of lies. It was also due to the use of anti-democratic institutions (courts) instead of popular support.

[okie1962]

Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9

No. The success of the movement was due to promotion of the agenda by the apparatus of public opinion formation, including plenty of lies. It was also due to the use of anti-democratic institutions (courts) instead of popular support.

Oh, you still haven't got over it yet! If we give you a doll, can you show us where it hurts?

[Bobdreamz]

Originally Posted by hbdwihdh378y9

No. The success of the movement was due to promotion of the agenda by the apparatus of public opinion formation, including plenty of lies. It was also due to the use of anti-democratic institutions (courts) instead of popular support.

So courts are now anti-democratic institutions?

So let's throw away the rights enshrined in the Constitution and let's have "Civil Rights" decided on popular support?
I wonder how the following would have fared under your premise:

Slavery (Maybe we could have avoided that pesky Civil War if Slavery was put up to a Vote)
Women's Right to Vote
Child Labor Laws
Voting Rights Act that allowed blacks to finally Vote
Americans with Disabilities Act
Gay Marriage

The Civil Rights of Minorities should never be allowed to be voted upon by the majority.

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by Bobdreamz

So courts are now anti-democratic institutions?

Yes, they are, Bobby. When they read magically into the Constitution what is not there, you are asking for trouble. The 14th Amendment applied to freed slaves, not to gay people, and not even to women. That came later with the 19th Amendment.

Worse still is reading out of the Constitution what blatantly IS there, which is usually the next step of you "progressive" leftists, from gun ownership to political speech....

It is so telling that you pinkoes get all upset about the Citizen's United decision, which reaffirmed that yes, the 1st amendment means what it says after all.

Originally Posted by Bobdreamz

So let's throw away the rights enshrined in the Constitution and let's have "Civil Rights" decided on popular support?

I wonder how the following would have fared under your premise:

Slavery (Maybe we could have avoided that pesky Civil War if Slavery was put up to a Vote).

Funny you should mention this. The Dred Scott decision, by forcing formerly free territories to be open to slavery, actually nullified the legislative vote. It overturned the legislative Compromises of 1820, 1850 and 1854, and set the nation on the path to Civil War, because if Free Territories, created by Congress, could be forced open to slavery, what was to stop slave owners from taking their slaves to Free States?

The Dred Scott decision was not your kind of "progressive" (sic) judicial tyranny, but it was judicial tyranny nonetheless.

Peaceful abolition of slavery actually happened in most of the rest of this hemisphere, by the way, where it was voted in.

Originally Posted by Bobdreamz

Women's Right to Vote

Which was fought for, state-by-state, until the Constitution was amended accordingly. That is how the 19th Amendment came to be, Bobby. Had abortion been legalized this way, and had Gay Marriage been legalized this way, that would be constitutional, and the issues would be far less contentious than they are today. Sorry, tyrants in black robes magically reading into the Constitution *what does not exist in it* is a very dangerous thing indeed.

Originally Posted by Bobdreamz

Child Labor Laws

Those were voted in. Yes, Bobby, they were.

Originally Posted by Bobdreamz

Voting Rights Act that allowed blacks to finally Vote

Which was AN ACT OF CONGRESS, Bobby, passed in 1965! By the way, it didn't *allow* blacks to vote; they had been in fact been voting since 1870. What it did do was safeguard their votes from political chicanery.

Originally Posted by Bobdreamz

Americans with Disabilities Act

Which was also AN ACT OF CONGRESS, passed in 1992. Wow, Bobby, do you know anything???

Originally Posted by Bobdreamz

The Civil Rights of Minorities should never be allowed to be voted upon by the majority.

Sorry, but every time one of you leftists wants to impose another tax or regulation, you ARE voting to infringe upon the rights of someone else. It is really striking that you don't understand that.

Direct taxation of citizens was also unconstitutional, by the way, until the 16th Amendment of 1913, which, along with the 17th and 18th Amendments, has to be the worst examples of the "Progressive" (sic) Era.....

[NickB1967]

Originally Posted by okie1962

Oh, you still haven't got over it yet! If we give you a doll, can you show us where it hurts?

You know, you do see a lot less uproar over this where the issue was voted in legislatively (Iowa, Massachussetts, and a dozen or so other states), than you do where a judge magically read something into the Constitution that was never there and banged his gavel.

The Rule of Law is better than the Rule of The Anus, or the Rule of Judicial Whims.

[Amelorn]

My non-scientific sociological theory:

After Stonewall, the LGBT population slowly began to live more openly, albeit in "safe places" off the beaten path. The concurrent sexual revolution helped, as a generation raised in the brave, new post-WWII world saw the glimmer of an opportunity at a different/better life and ran with it.

AIDS of course did not help. Gays were stigmatized as pariahs, but the community came together in a cohesive and decisive way it never did before (or arguably after, as the older hands often say). As many lived (more or less) openly, the country saw for the first time that (1) gay men could occur in any family (including elite ones) and (2) they were imperilled.

We (speaking as a gay man) also had a staunch and powerful ally almost ab initio: 60s/70s era educated activist feminists. I suppose a common enemy helped: the vision of a Stepford/Cleaver household for all, whether they wanted it or not.

Gen X and the Millennials grew up in a world where overbearing "traditional values" were either shrugged off or pragmatically cherry-picked. "Pragmatic, selective apathy" I feel would describe my generation's approach to politics (millennial). What two consenting people (any gender/orientation) do in bed is their own business. Worrying about it is a waste of time. Denying various legal privileges (ie marriage, medical, inheritance, etc) crosses the line of injustice in a secular context. Many of the holdouts in the boomer and silent generation have more or less yielded - having seen LGBT children, grandchildren, nieces/nephews, etc function like "regular" people: seeking education & gainful employment, enjoy life with friends, deal with love, loss (all too much of that) ... but dealing with the galling stuff: violence, bullying, rejection, accusations of perversion and criminality (against children!).

Much of the problems of the LGBT community are self-damaging (ie your chaste Christian wife won't catch them from us): alcohol and drug abuse, STDs, depression, suicide, poverty, unemployment, loneliness. One might accuse, but I am drawn to how Tolstoy in his morally-conflicted old age perceived a certain segment of prisoners: a group of people (more or less) screwed by the circumstances that they grew up in - unwanted and unneeded by a world unafraid to make that known. Being born into a family that will not (cannot?) accept who you are; attending a Church promising hellfire or likewise describing people like you as "intrinsically disordered" (my RCC experience); a school where your peers bully you without shame; workplaces that have and will use the power to fire you. And the world sits and ponders why certain issues like the ones above effect LGBT people at a rate (sometimes) dozens of times above average.