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Fortunately, and despite all the anti-Republican rhetoric spewed by the mainstream press, Republicans are in fact in the majority. The majority of state legislatures and governors are now Republican, the Senate has gone Republican, and the House is firmly Republican.
The liberals cling to Barack Obama as their Great Leader, but he's gone in less than a year and a half, and there will be a new, more moderate President. It could be Hillary, it could be Jeb, or one of the others, or even Jim Webb who is a pro-gun pro-military moderate Democrat (my favorite among the Dems actually).
But we'll not have another one like Obama for a long, long time, I think; he was an overreaction to G.W. Bush and even the left wing Democrats realize that he lost the Congress with his terrible leadership and extremism.
So I doubt the Titanic is going to sink just yet.
Oh I don't know about all that.
Am no fan of Obama and his policies but what happens going forward will depend upon quite honestly what is determined by the electorate.
Gays and Latino/Hispanics along with their supporters have gotten theirs (though think gays got more than anyone else), and they are certainly going to seek and build upon the past (by 2016) eight years.
Progressive, Liberal and Democratic locally elected officials in places like MA, NY, CA and other areas in particular urban where Millennials and in some cases their parents and grandparents are flocking to seem to think they are the wave of the future. That is a more "inclusive" and less conservative USA where it is the duty if not right of government to intervene in all sorts of social and other issues.
Again with the preposterous floating argument that presumes that it is correct in a free country to use the police power of the state to order one person to pay another person a price-fixed wage. It is absolutely pathetic the level of education in this country, and the complete absence of philosophical principles.
Nobody, except me, is arguing the morality or correctness or justice of a minimum wage. Y'all just assume its propriety and make idiotic disconnected arguments about how much it should be. Rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. While freedom and a correct way of life is decimated and destroyed.
I can fault the public education system for producing generations of utter retards who don't know or care what freedom means or why it's important. You people just don't seem to know any better, because the State schools have indoctrinated a statist mentality, and crushed your ability to think critically.
Just a bunch of damnable sheep swallowing the collectivist party line. Of course it's OK to steal other people's money. Why not? They're all evil for earning it in the first place! We are so doomed.
This thread's question is whether a $15 an hour minimum wage is a good or bad idea, not whether the minimum wage principle is a good idea. I thought we were talking about practicalities, not philosophy. At this point there is zero chance of abolishing the minimum wage, so that is not an option. The options are leave it as is or raise it. If it's to be raised, how much?
Find me a country that does NOT have a minimum wage. Almost all of them do. Germany was the last industrialized country to my knowledge not to have an official minimum wage but they instituted one in 2014. Although they did have a legal prohibition against "immoral wages" whatever that meant. Germany has the some of strongest labor unions in the world so they don't have a culture of low-balling workers.
Some countries, like India, have minimum wage but do not not enforce theirs very well. Is that the model you'd like to emulate? If there is a country without minimum wage that you'd like to use as a model, please, point me to it.
This thread's question is whether a $15 an hour minimum wage is a good or bad idea, not whether the minimum wage principle is a good idea. I thought we were talking about practicalities, not philosophy. At this point there is zero chance of abolishing the minimum wage, so that is not an option. The options are leave it as is or raise it. If it's to be raised, how much?
Find me a country that does NOT have a minimum wage. Almost all of them do. Germany was the last industrialized country to my knowledge not to have an official minimum wage but they instituted one in 2014. Although they did have a legal prohibition against "immoral wages" whatever that meant. Germany has the some of strongest labor unions in the world so they don't have a culture of low-balling workers.
Some countries, like India, have minimum wage but do not not enforce theirs very well. Is that the model you'd like to emulate? If there is a country without minimum wage that you'd like to use as a model, please, point me to it.
Your argument is invalid, and is known as the appeal to convention. "Since everybody is doing it, it must be right, and can never be eliminated". "It has always been this way, so we should and must keep doing it this way".
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At this point there is zero chance of abolishing the minimum wage, so that is not an option.
Appeal to convention. Sloppy, bad, invalid.
We've seen gay marriage become the Law of the Land in the United States. Most of the world does not have gay marriage, and it has NEVER been done this way in our past. And gay marriage exists at the behest of the 92% of the population who are not gay (!), with nothing to gain and looking only at the morality and ethics of doing the right thing.
So, change is possible, even when it seems impossible. Even in this increasingly stupid country. And even if every other country does it, and even if it has always existed. We can get rid of the minimum wage, just like we can get rid of lots of other injustice. All that is necessary is the decision to think and become a moral and just society.
And in a moral and just society, there is no minimum wage. All wages are negotiated privately and it is nobody's business what free citizens and companies pay each other in trade for time and talent.
The minimum wage is a moral atrocity, and that becomes apparent when you actually describe what it is.
To identify it, is to damn it.
A woman decides to open a flower shop and needs someone to help with moving boxes and setting up shelves. And you are going to tell me that it is correct and moral and right to FORCE HER UNDER THE PENALTY OF IMPRISONMENT to have to pay someone $X/hr for labor. And that she is FORBIDDEN UNDER THE PENALTY OF IMPRISONMENT to pay less that the STATE-CONTROLLED AND MANDATED MINIMUM WAGE.
Utter and incomprehensible madness. And in the United States of America, which is supposed to be the model for the world of a free society.
So, adopting the collectivist garbage policies of Eurotrashland, we make it impossible to open a business, and profitable for employers to outsource the whole damned economy. It's absurd. It's insane. But above all, it's evil. It's wrong. And it needs to be changed. And that will only happen with proper philosophy, not "practicalities", which is the playground of tyranny.
So get your damned thinking cap on and start analyzing policies from a moral and ethical standpoint. Everything starts there. Everything.
Last edited by Marc Paolella; 07-31-2015 at 12:14 AM..
I have several ideas for biz, but I''ll never hire any help, cause I'm not going to be told what I can do with my biz. If and when Big Bro TRIES to do that to me, I'll shut down one, and open another and if they seem to be pursuing, me, I'll spend the money to open it under someone else's name, or as a Nevada corporation. Nobody is going to force me to do anything. to hell with them and that.
I have several ideas for biz, but I''ll never hire any help, cause I'm not going to be told what I can do with my biz. If and when Big Bro TRIES to do that to me, I'll shut down one, and open another and if they seem to be pursuing, me, I'll spend the money to open it under someone else's name, or as a Nevada corporation. Nobody is going to force me to do anything. to hell with them and that.
That's where I am. I've had at least 10 requests from very nice people to have me as a mentor, and hire them as a trainee.
And I could have used them to expand my volume and take on new clients. Nope. Forget it. If you think I am going to allow the State to tell me who to hire, how to hire, how much to pay them, and have to insure them, and contribute to their social security, and obey a million obtuse regulations that provide the basis for fines and revenue generation, then you're smoking some serious dope. Take that and shove it. I work alone. And many people who could have started their own business similar to mine won't get to do it because others like me won't be dictated to by the lowest common denominator.
And this is how the best and brightest in society are throttled and stymied. In deference and submission to the leeches and the worst among us, who exert influence and control not by merit or virtue, but by tyranny.
Your loss, collectivist idiots!
Last edited by Marc Paolella; 07-31-2015 at 09:40 AM..
The talk about a $15 minimum wage always centers on fast-food workers, for some reason. What about all the office workers who make barely above the current minimum wage? Even university office workers, where a BA often is required, make less than $15 in many states. It means the university, and all state offices, would encounter severe budget problems raising office staff to $15/hr. or more, then adjusting their supervisors' pay upward, to keep them ahead of basic entry-level secretarial wages. In the process of making those major adjustments, staff would have to be laid off, to compensate for the expense of raising all those wages. Because the state legislatures sure aren't going to allocate more funding to state colleges and universities to cover the expense of raising the minimum wage!
Location: East of Seattle since 1992, 615' Elevation, Zone 8b - originally from SF Bay Area
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ruth4Truth
The talk about a $15 minimum wage always centers on fast-food workers, for some reason. What about all the office workers who make barely above the current minimum wage? Even university office workers, where a BA often is required, make less than $15 in many states. It means the university, and all state offices, would encounter severe budget problems raising office staff to $15/hr. or more, then adjusting their supervisors' pay upward, to keep them ahead of basic entry-level secretarial wages. In the process of making those major adjustments, staff would have to be laid off, to compensate for the expense of raising all those wages. Because the state legislatures sure aren't going to allocate more funding to state colleges and universities to cover the expense of raising the minimum wage!
Compression is a definite problem, especially in fast food where the supervisors don't make $15. When/if that becomes the minimum, the supervisors will have to make more. The same goes for many other jobs such as call centers, retail, and many clerical office workers. Even the EMT, with their life-saving skills and licensing may only be making $15/hour to start, average pay is $35k ($18/hour). I can't imagine that they will be happy to get the same as the fast food workers.
Minimum wage is currently $7.25. You think it should be higher. You say you want $15. You will compromise down to $10, but you scream that you want $15 for as long as possible hoping that maybe you will get $10.50 or $11.00.
I'm surprised no one sees that which is what I think is really going on.
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