How to Eliminate Welfare? (unemployment rate, ethic, myth, abortion)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Umm, not to spoil your plan but giving people money from the government that they haven't earned is still welfare. So your plan is not eliminating welfare.
What's your plan, end all social service spending?
Multiply $20,000 a year times 236,000,000 people (that's how many are over 18). Be careful with all those zeroes.
You're going to get $5.7 Trillion dollars.
Now look at the federal budget. The whole thing; defense, roads, everything. It's $3.8 trillion dollars.
And you "don't see any rational person having a problem with this plan"? I did you a favor and deleted the comments you made about conservatives, since you have exposed yourself as..........well, not exactly the most omniscient person in the world.
It doesn't have to be $20,000. I believe the OP just threw out an arbitrary number to start the conversation. Finland is offering $850 per month, which is $10,200 per year. That is about half what the OP suggested, yet it is still life changing for many people. That would cover my mortgage with a bit leftover, which would make a significant difference in our lives.
We could offer $850 per month for individuals over 21 (many 18 year olds are still in high school, the trend to move out later is growing) and $1275 per month for married couples ($15,300 per year). I don't think there should be adjustments for cost of living as this isn't intended for people to live on, but rather to supplement their income.
Switzerland was considering something like this a couple of years ago. They called it something like a guaranteed minimum income. It was voted down. It sure would simplify the public assistance bureaucracy, wouldn't it?
Better solution: organize business leaders and non-profits to go into marginal communities and create jobs. Work out some kind of a daycare program so single moms can go to school and acquire skills. Raise the capital gains tax back to the level it was at before the Bush tax cuts, and make the overall tax system more equitable, so there can be more money for job training, for supporting research and development in science, medicine and industry, and for public works (infrastructure improvement). Revamp the H1b visa law so that employers can't lay off masses of US workers and replace them with cheap imported labor. Nix the law that provides tax incentives for outsourcing jobs abroad.
Sit back, watch the economy get back on its feet and flourish. Watch people get jobs. A rising tide lifts all boats.
Great idea but it only works for people that are not lazy.....It is so much easier to walk to the mailbox and get your money than to actually have to make something of yourself work hard and long hours to better your family situation.
Great idea but it only works for people that are not lazy.....It is so much easier to walk to the mailbox and get your money than to actually have to make something of yourself work hard and long hours to better your family situation.
No one is talking about giving out enough money that people would be comfortable living on it, it would cover only the most basic expenses, and by the way- most people on welfare do work.
It doesn't have to be $20,000. I believe the OP just threw out an arbitrary number to start the conversation. Finland is offering $850 per month, which is $10,200 per year. That is about half what the OP suggested, yet it is still life changing for many people. That would cover my mortgage with a bit leftover, which would make a significant difference in our lives.
We could offer $850 per month for individuals over 21 (many 18 year olds are still in high school, the trend to move out later is growing) and $1275 per month for married couples ($15,300 per year). I don't think there should be adjustments for cost of living as this isn't intended for people to live on, but rather to supplement their income.
Exactly And your figure of $850 a month coincides with the figures I gave for a TANF recipient with 2 kids in Nevada, $383 cash $500 food stamps- only now, because we micromanage the money the recipient has to sell food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar in order to pay rent which is just absurd
Oh please..what do people who earn a salary do when they run out of money, go rob someone? This micro management of adults through the current welfare system is absurd and wasteful. I already gave an example- Nevada cash grant for mom and 2 kids is $383, not enough to pay rent, the only way to pay rent is to sell food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar. How does that help either the taxpayer or the poor person? We spend a ton on HUD housing vouchers and they only are issued to 24% of welfare recipients, and part of the reason more people can't get them is because so much of that budget is taken up by recipients in LA or NY who receive $3000 a month or more for rent. If you give a cash grant that would cover $800 or $900 for rent people in those high cost areas may do well to consider moving, or sharing a rental with another family but at least ALL poor people would receive something for housing.
I'm talking about people who are unemployable. What do they do when they spend the 20k and have nothing to fall back on? No welfare system. People that are currently working and run out of money usually get a 2nd job or find a better paying one.
No one is talking about giving out enough money that people would be comfortable living on it, it would cover only the most basic expenses, and by the way- most people on welfare do work.
I'm talking about people who are unemployable. What do they do when they spend the 20k and have nothing to fall back on? No welfare system. People that are currently working and run out of money usually get a 2nd job or find a better paying one.
To reiterate, I think 20k is more than we would need to give out, but I will use that figure since you did. It is more than they get on welfare; you get a cash welfare grant, SNAP, and housing assistance if you are lucky. If you waste it all you still have to wait until next month, the welfare dept. doesn't give you more if you spend it all.
We are spending a crap load of money administering these programs that dole out social services in bits and pieces, it doesn't foster independence, IMO it creates bad habits - i.e. the poor get very, very little cash but usually a generous amount of food stamps, so since they can't use SNAP to go to the movies or buy a new video game (or whatever) they 'treat' themselves by buying junk food or snacks. If they had a fixed allotment of cash they would do what we all do, pay our rent, buy basic foods then make rational decisions about what to do with whatever is left over.
Tell me more about how the single mother working two jobs to feed her family in poverty doesn't deserve any wealth, and puffy-haired scam-artist Donald Trumps deserve every penny.
Donald Trump absolutely deserves every penny that he earned. Why? He EARNED IT. Money that is earned is OWNED by the earner. As for the phony sob single mom scenario, a woman should NEVER put herself in a position where she is alone with children. Such a scenario is almost always a choice.
Please don't tell me about young widows and cancer victims, that's extremely rare to the point where discussing it is a waste of time and space. We are not going to discuss the emergency scenario, we are going to discuss the normal situation that applies to 95% of all humans.
The usual single mom got there by being stupid. It's that simple. Choosing a bad mate, not saving lots and lots of money before having kids, not verifying that her husband is stable and a good provider before marrying him, ignoring red flags left and right and hoping bad crap will go away after the kids arrive, you name it. Bad choices lead to the vast majority of single moms that exist in society. And being a single mom DOES NOT CREATE RIGHTS, and does not make it correct or moral to steal from others. Need does not establish a claim.
Nobody DESERVES stuff because they made bad choices or were unlucky. There is NO SUCH THING AS "I DESERVE" because my life has been difficult or unlucky.
So that is why we need to eliminate welfare. It is morally wrong and destructive to society. It actually encourages bad choices by making them pay.
No one is talking about giving out enough money that people would be comfortable living on it, it would cover only the most basic expenses, and by the way- most people on welfare do work.
No amount of money, however modest, is a correct amount to give someone if it means we steal it from someone else. Your premise, "need" makes it right to take from others, is corrupt and wrong. We need to reverse that thinking. Need creates the right to ask for help, not demand it, and not use the police/tax power of the state to expropriate it from those who have it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
And you "don't see any rational person having a problem with this plan"? I did you a favor and deleted the comments you made about conservatives, since you have exposed yourself as..........well, not exactly the most omniscient person in the world.
And your figure of $850 a month coincides with the figures I gave for a TANF recipient with 2 kids in Nevada, $383 cash $500 food stamps- only now, because we micromanage the money the recipient has to sell food stamps for 50 cents on the dollar in order to pay rent which is just absurd
