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I would rather smell tobacco smoke than perfume that some one has drenched themselves in, or some one that forgot to take a bath and decided to go shopping in the same store I am in.
While over indulging in perfume and cologne can suck there is nothing as bad as someone who reeks of cig smoke on their clothing. I'm working with a group of 10 in a 6-week training environment and only one smokes. We are often in close quarters with one another and this one guys smells so bad it's hard to be next to him. Fortunately as the instructor I can move around while his fellow students sometimes cannot. They even bust his chops about smoking but he continues on as if he was a chimney.
What I provided was very clear counters to absurd and fallacious "arguments". I even helped with education on how to spot the fallacies. Some couldn't, or chose not to understand. Let me apologise if you've found such assistance insulting.
The fallacy you cited didn't even apply to the argument at hand.
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
Honestly, I am a very follow the rules and laws kind of guy. I am only punk due to age, musical tastes and being an iconoclast to ideals held by my elders.
Punks, by definition, don't follow the rules.
You are not a punk.
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The exact same goes to you if you can't follow the rules. Arenas, stadiums and concert venues can and will throw you out for smoking. Don't like the policy, you don't have to go. Renting a seat don't entitle you to not play by their rules.
Who says I don't follow the rules?
The cafe I smoked at allowed smoking and had ashtrays.
You know...the one where you said you would have unloaded a fire extinguisher on me.
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Strawman, plain and simple because there can easily be nicotine in them
How is a small amount of nicotine in water vapor going to hurt you?
Let's say you walk by a vaper three times a day and get some of his/her water vapor on your face.
You're going to die?
Are you telling us that?
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Your attempt at civil disobedience doesn't change the fact you are disgustingly in the wrong and should have been cited by police for breaking a law.
No, it's busybodies like you who are disgustingly in the wrong.
To pass a law against doing something that does not harm others is disgusting and cowardly.
Well, the fact that so few teenagers smoke DISPROVES your claim that teenagers always smoke.
If you were truly an iconoclast, you would be running against the crowd, not with it.
By your own account, the crowd has been running away from smoking.
If you were the iconoclast you claim you are, you would support smoking.
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I see you "no true Scottsmaned" yourself. You're argument is therefore invalid.
What the hell does that mean?
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Originally Posted by mkpunk
When I say lingers, it is more in the area or clothing of a smoker. Ever roommate with a smoker and you're a non-smoker, that smell can annoy you. I know it did with my roommate when he smoked for a period.
Why did you pick a roommate who smoked if you didn't like smoking?
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The smell issue for me is prolonged exposure like say having to walk past smoking sections
Oh, the horror.
How DO you survive that trauma, pray tell?
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Originally Posted by Bigfoot424
While over indulging in perfume and cologne can suck there is nothing as bad as someone who reeks of cig smoke on their clothing. I'm working with a group of 10 in a 6-week training environment and only one smokes. We are often in close quarters with one another and this one guys smells so bad it's hard to be next to him. Fortunately as the instructor I can move around while his fellow students sometimes cannot. They even bust his chops about smoking but he continues on as if he was a chimney.
I just don't know HOW we survived as a nation when most adults smoked!
"I just don't know HOW we survived as a nation when most adults smoked!
Amazing!"
My father didn't survive. He died from lung cancer as did his father. I am old enough to remember people smoking most anywhere, including on planes, and I abhorred it then as well.
A few years ago, when I was first on City-Data, a similar discussion occurred. At that time I pointed out that this really wasn't about smoking, it was about control of others, and that as soon as the smokers were brought to heel, it would be something else, and my bet was on food.
The anti-smokers adamantly denied this, it was all about the smokers, and as soon as they managed to wipe out the smokers they'd be happy.
It wasn't two months before the first anti-food laws appeared in New York City and Chicago. Seems I was more on the mark than they wanted to admit.
Another indicator of the real issue occurred right here in Austin, Texas. The City Council crafted an elegant solution to the fact that there was a loud demand on the part of the squeaky wheels for a smoking ban because they didn't want to be exposed to second hand smoke, but business owners were saying it hurt their business (as reflected in the bottom line) and smokers were being discriminated against. So, the City Council passed an ordinance whereby smoking was banned in restaurants and bars, but a business owner who felt it was in the best interests of his business to allow smoking could apply for a smoking-allowed license, pay a hefty fee, jump through a bunch of hoops, and they could allow smoking in their bar. (This applied to specific kinds of businesses - for the most part the smoking ban applied).
One of the hoops was that the business had to have a large sign on the front door notifying any entering that it was an establishment that allowed smoking. This meant that those who didn't want to be exposed to second hand smoke or smokers could spend their money in the hundreds, if not thousands, of other venues that did not choose to get such a license, and smokers, including not just patrons but business owners and employees who smoked, would have a place, as well. Perfect, right?
As soon as that ordinance went into effect, the masks came off and the howls began. How DARE the City Council allow people to smoke in such places!
It wasn't about being exposed to second hand smoke, to having to smell it, it wasn't truly about anything of the kind. It was about not wanting other people to be allowed to make decisions that you didn't think they should make, that you wouldn't make, to make choices that you disapproved of.
The moment anyone says that there ought to be a law against someone doing something "for their own good", beware. The moment that someone says that they don't care if someone else does something they themselves don't enjoy, but there ought to be a law that they don't have to be exposed to it, beware. That's not what they mean at all; they really mean that no one should be allowed to make choices they themselves wouldn't make, and everyone should live just like them. Bank on it.
As long as they stay outside, I don't care. What's worse is the smell of weed now, that skunk stuff. Some workers were smoking it across the street but I only figured this out after I could not locate the rabid skunk, and recalling the smell from a concert I attended a few months earlier. It is relevant now that there is a big push to kill tobacco smoking and welcome skunk smoking.
NO TRUE SCOTSMAN (also known as: no true Christian*) No True Scotsman
Description: When a universal (“all”, “every”, etc.) claim is refuted, rather than conceding the point or meaningfully revising the claim, the claim is altered by going from universal to specific, and failing to give any objective criteria for the specificity.
Logical Form:
All X are Y.
(it is clearly refuted that all X are not Y)
Then all true X are Y.
Example #1: In 2011, Christian broadcaster, Harold Camping, (once again) predicted the end of the world via Jesus, and managed to get many Christians to join his alarmist campaign. During this time, and especially after the Armageddon date had passed, many Christian groups publicly declared that Camping is not a “true Christian”. On a personal note, I think Camping was and is as much of a Christian than any other self-proclaimed Christian and religious/political/ethical beliefs aside, I admire him for having the cojones to make a falsifiable claim about his religious beliefs.
A few years ago, when I was first on City-Data, a similar discussion occurred. At that time I pointed out that this really wasn't about smoking, it was about control of others, and that as soon as the smokers were brought to heel, it would be something else, and my bet was on food.
The anti-smokers adamantly denied this, it was all about the smokers, and as soon as they managed to wipe out the smokers they'd be happy.
It wasn't two months before the first anti-food laws appeared in New York City and Chicago. Seems I was more on the mark than they wanted to admit.
Of course you where right. It will always be something, because these folks have nothing better to do than complain about everything. First it was because smoking caused cancer, then it was because smoke from the smoker, caused cancer to others, and now its because they don't like the smell.
Bet these same folks will never complain about Booze, which is worse that smoking or eating foods that aren't really good for you. They just discovered that Smokers won't fight back because its not "Politically Correct."
Of course you where right. It will always be something, because these folks have nothing better to do than complain about everything. First it was because smoking caused cancer, then it was because smoke from the smoker, caused cancer to others, and now its because they don't like the smell.
Bet these same folks will never complain about Booze, which is worse that smoking or eating foods that aren't really good for you. They just discovered that Smokers won't fight back because its not "Politically Correct."
Booze is worst because of how immediately one's actions can effect others. I drink but to be quite honest, only a little bit and never to the point that I would be impaired driving if I were to drive.
You never hear anyone complaining about deaths from "second-hand alcohol."
Like drunk drivers killing drivers who don't drink.
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. But that is a very low test.
