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No, everyone is not entitled to good emergency service. Many ER's discharge you once they determine you to be stable, and then you get the $3500 bill for the privilege a few weeks later.
The working poor aren't the ones suffering the most, they can get affordable or free care. It's the lower-middle and middle-middle classes that have it stuck to them. They are right at the point where they make too much money for it to be free or affordable, but don't make quite enough money for it to *really* be affordable comfortably.
I went without health insurance for the first 14 years of my adulthood. Thankfully, I wasn't sick very much in that time, and when I was, I paid out of pocket to PA's or urgent care doctors. My wife has been sued to hell by collectors over tens of thousands in medical debt (she had insurance at times, none at others; her/my income has fluctuated a lot over the years).
To cover me, my wife, and one of my three sons (one kid gets state health insurance due to a condition, the other is covered by his biological dad), is $656/mo in premium, with no subsidy because we now make over $100K. We can afford it, but we get very little value out of that money (deductibles are $4K/$8K).
Like everything else in the United States, everything is a business. We make everything about money. Even people getting sick.
Sign me up for single-payer yesterday.
From a recent ER visit for my wife:
On a snowy Saturday afternoon, she complained about blurry vision, numb fingers, feeling weird, and feeling like she's dying. She can be a bit over dramatic, but she begged to go to the ER. I asked if she wanted to make a doctor's appointment, or if she wanted to go to urgent care instead. She said ER, that either I was going to take her, she was going to take herself, or she was going to go home and die (her words, not mine). So off we went.
We were there about 3.5 hours total. Most of that time was spent in the hospital bed (including for the EKG/doctor consult), though she did get taken away for a urine test and an MRI.
After the MRI came back negative, they said it was a migraine at worst, and a severe headache at best. "Here's your paperwork, off you go, follow up with such and such".
The bill came today: $2750, after "adjustments" brought it down from $9050. There's another $180 bill for the same visit as well.
On a snowy Saturday afternoon, she complained about blurry vision, numb fingers, feeling weird, and feeling like she's dying. She can be a bit over dramatic, but she begged to go to the ER. I asked if she wanted to make a doctor's appointment, or if she wanted to go to urgent care instead. She said ER, that either I was going to take her, she was going to take herself, or she was going to go home and die (her words, not mine). So off we went.
We were there about 3.5 hours total. Most of that time was spent in the hospital bed (including for the EKG/doctor consult), though she did get taken away for a urine test and an MRI.
After the MRI came back negative, they said it was a migraine at worst, and a severe headache at best. "Here's your paperwork, off you go, follow up with such and such".
The bill came today: $2750, after "adjustments" brought it down from $9050. There's another $180 bill for the same visit as well.
Too many United Statesians think that health care is not a right, but a commodity or a luxury.
It's sad, because people could be a lot more productive if they're healthy.
Employees would also be able to switch jobs/careers more easily, and not live in mortal fear of losing their job, because they wouldn't be absolutely dependent on their employer for healthcare (assuming they even provide it, which is easy enough to loophole out of).
For the same reason, people would be much more inclined to actually start their own businesses, which are the real job creators.
And as mentioned, it would actually save money over the long run. It'd also likely reduce a lot of administrative hassle all around (making it easier to hire employees), because every citizen would be automatically covered regardless.
But unfortunately, too many people here would rather pretend that they and society in general wouldn't benefit from universal healthcare, and continue voting under the impression that they are just a 'temporarily embarrassed millionaire'.
I agree. So much so I started a thread on here about it that lasted over a year. Having a for profit healthcare system not only burdens us finically but it's not healthy either. We get tests we don't need, surgeries we don't need, and medicine we shouldn't be taking.
Non profit is really the only way to avoid this. Medical staff should be on salary. I doubt we will ever experience it here in the U.S, don't get me wrong, as I say this with a heavy heart. We are the only Capitalist Nation, it's just not a good fit, our healthcare system runs itself at this point. There is so much money to be made as the middle man in our system, there are so many doctors that take advantage of it. Shame really, as it prevents doctors from concentrating on our health the way they would if dollars weren't attached to our illness or lack of. Pharma is the same way. We are the gullible country, they make their profits here as they wonder why we still allow them the privilege. Putting a price on our welfare just opens wounds to infections.
In my opinion, and from talking to others, most people want a non profit healthcare system. Republican and Democrat, doesn't seem to matter. It's one thing most people think should be a government tax paid service. Just like our police dept, fire, etc. It would save the patient money obviously, and clear the way for doctors to disregard incentive that isn't healthy for their patients, stop excess testing, and bring us back into good relationships with our providers. My opinion of course but I wanted to share it.
IMHO, yours is a valuable 2 cents. Your focus on 'prices of services' is laser sharp. After all, 'rent-seeking' behavior takes many forms; when government intervenes, lobbyists are paid to argue the libertarian case.
"Pearson: A large amount of higher overall hospital spending in the U.S. can be explained by services costing more in U.S. hospitals rather than because U.S. hospitals are delivering more services. When we look across a broad range of hospital services (both medical and surgical), the average price in the United States is 85 percent higher than the average in other OECD countries. To put this in perspective, a hospital stay in the United States costs over $18,000 on average. The countries that come closest to spending as much — Canada, the Netherlands, Japan — spend between $4,000 and $6,000 less per stay. Across OECD countries, the average cost of a hospital stay is about one-third that of the U.S., at $6,200.
As we have previously said, many OECD countries use strong regulation to set prices that hospitals can charge for different services, and some of them even set budgets for how much hospitals can spend. The quality of care delivered in hospitals in these countries are comparable to that in the U.S., and universities are still able to attract the best students to medicine.
If strict price control is not a path that the U.S. wishes to follow, an interesting example that the U.S. could learn from is Switzerland, ..."
I wish America could follow that but not as long as we are capitalists. We'd have to have socialist government to even begin to implement it. I don't see that coming. Capitalist seek a yearly rise in profit. Twobyfour is pretty correct although I'm not sure it's for the same reasons I based my conclusions on. Affordable healthcare, not an NHS style like England has. We are already seeing that disaster. A capitalist market with no competition means we are screwed paying for a mandated system with high costs. It's worse now than it was before for most working people. Those who aren't working or make the quota for welfare health fair a bit better on cost but suffer on quality.
If we can afford to have the most powerful military in the world, then we can afford to give Americans healthcare without them going bankrupt.
Agreed. We have the most powerful military in the world & the most expensive. This reflects our values. We justify the increasing military costs because we prioritize those costs & increasing expenditures.
Quote:
Originally Posted by PoppySead
I wish America could follow that but not as long as we are capitalists. We'd have to have socialist government to even begin to implement it. I don't see that coming. Capitalist seek a yearly rise in profit. Twobyfour is pretty correct although I'm not sure it's for the same reasons I based my conclusions on. Affordable healthcare, not an NHS style like England has. We are already seeing that disaster. A capitalist market with no competition means we are screwed paying for a mandated system with high costs. It's worse now than it was before for most working people. Those who aren't working or make the quota for welfare health fair a bit better on cost but suffer on quality.
Simply having a common fee schedule is one thing that could mitigate out of control increases in costs. In the US, how much a provider is paid is not dependent on the cost, it's dependent on the kind of insurance a patient has. Competition is for providers to seek & choose patients whose insurance pays them more generously.
Why can't we negotiate lower prices with drug manufacturers? We are, in fact, banned from doing so.
Quote:
...When Congress overhauled Medicare in 2003 to pay for prescription drugs, lawmakers banned the agency from negotiating with drug companies as a concession to the pharmaceutical industry. Instead, the insurers who cover the roughly 42 million enrollees in Medicare's Part D drug program obtain their own discounts.
But many experts argue that the federal government could do a better job than the insurers -- pointing to the deeper discounts obtained by Medicaid and the Veterans Health Administration, which can bargain directly.
...In many European and other advanced countries, where public healthcare is the norm, the governments often determine what drugs they will cover and at what price. Countries sometimes refuse to cover medications they believe are priced too high. Any private insurers in those countries then follow the government negotiated rate. ...
If we can afford to have the most powerful military in the world, then we can afford to give Americans healthcare without them going bankrupt.
I agree. I have often said that there ought to be a few things that -- as Americans -- we benefit from in pretty much the richest and most blessed nation in the world. And in my view, having good healthcare for all should be one of those benefits.
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