Why Is It Socially Acceptable To Be Bad At Math? (Representatives, Congress)
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Math and art are not the same thing. Art is not a language in the same sense that math is. Math has rules and guidelines. Math always has a correct answer or series of correct answers. Math only starts to become art at very high levels.
I also never said that everyone could become a math prodigy with lots of hard work. Of course there are naturals out there. What I said was that everyone could become proficient if they worked at it. Anybody that puts in the effort can understand the basic principles of math.
Art is subjective, so being 'good' at it is in the eye of the beholder. However, there is still a basic level of proficiency that everybody has the capability to reach if they put in some degree of effort.
Ok, how's your spelling and grammar? Do you spell every single word correctly all the time, no dictionary.com or spellcheck needed? Why not? If it's your first language, there is literally no excuse for poor spelling or grammar. You must not be trying hard enough if you haven't memorized every word in the English language you've ever seen, and every rule of grammar.
Algebra serves literally no purpose in my life , so there is no need for me to work to be proficient at it. But everyone has to spell or write almost every day if not every day in life, so there's no excuse for not knowing how to communicate proficiently in the language of your people.
Ok, how's your spelling and grammar? Do you spell every single word correctly all the time, no dictionary.com or spellcheck needed? Why not? If it's your first language, there is literally no excuse for poor spelling or grammar. You must not be trying hard enough if you haven't memorized every word in the English language you've ever seen, and every rule of grammar.
Algebra serves literally no purpose in my life , so there is no need for me to work to be proficient at it. But everyone has to spell or write almost every day if not every day in life, so there's no excuse for not knowing how to communicate proficiently in the language of your people.
You can get by in life without being proficient in the "first" language you speak/write & there are plenty of excuses "given" for poor spelling and or grammar. Eubonics comes to mind.
Grammar Nazi's are all over the place who live to point out bad grammar and are more than annoying.
Never met a Math Nazi.
I didn't see any poster say that one can't get by in life without being proficient in Algebra.
The comparison to those who have a talent/gift and are artistic? Not the same. If you can't carry a tune, you can take $5M worth of singing lessons given by the best of the best and you're still not going to get through the audition phase of "The Voice".
Math takes practice and an understanding of concepts. Just like figuring out how to spell words, the use of "their/they're/there" and "who's/whose/whom". If one cared? One could figure it out.
If one wanted to as opposed to saying "I suck at math", it can be done. Doesn't matter if you will ever use Algebra in your adult life, just that if you put the work in and wanted to...you most likely could. It doesn't matter to you? That's fine.
I think that was the point.
Last edited by Informed Info; 04-19-2016 at 10:20 PM..
lol...Excuses excuses excuses. 15 years ago I spoke hardly any English ( I still make lots of mistakes). But I just kept on going. Trying to take criticism of my writing seriously and fix it.
Math is more than just a language. It's all logic. It never changes. There is no exceptions. It is what it is.
If I can learn math anybody can. I am not one of those people who claims to have an IQ of 150...lol. I have to work my butt off for my grades. I took a college algebra class and you tube, khan academy was my tutor the entire semester. I sat hours and hours with one problem and all of a sudden the things made sense to me. So I moved on to the next problem. I ended up getting an A. It was hard for me but I did it.
However math might not be important for most people.. But just because you don't think it's important that doesn't mean you are incapable of learning it.
People can't even calculate percentage, algebra or fractions. That's below 9th grade too.
It isn't just "people" in general, high school students are graduating without the ability to do even basic math. Even algebra is taught in many universities that are forced to deal with remedial subjects just to get students up to a 9th grade level in math. Even simple trig and geometry are beyond a great many people. Yet most of those same people can tell you who is doing what on American Idol (is that still on?) or who the last superbowl QB was.
I suspect it's going to get far worse in the future. Look at some of the "common core" math examples. They don't teach mathematical principles. They teach counting.
Tell me about it. Years ago we (employee group) got a 10% discount at a local chain restaurant. Kid at the register was so flummoxed at trying to knock 10% off my bill without using the register. I did the math in my head and said something like "I'll settle out of court for $1.50 off" or similar. That imploring look is, really, pathetic.
But, that's why this kid is manning the register at Jimmy John's, and you are working in software IIRC.
It isn't just "people" in general, high school students are graduating without the ability to do even basic math. Even algebra is taught in many universities that are forced to deal with remedial subjects just to get students up to a 9th grade level in math. Even simple trig and geometry are beyond a great many people. Yet most of those same people can tell you who is doing what on American Idol (is that still on?) or who the last superbowl QB was.
I suspect it's going to get far worse in the future. Look at some of the "common core" math examples. They don't teach mathematical principles. They teach counting.
This is the problem with the misconception that everyone can be good at math - you say simple trig and geometry. People who "get math" think math is simple. There is nothing simple about geometry or trigonometry to someone who does not understand math. I passed HS geometry (over 20 years ago) with a D and I guarantee you that D was a gift from my teacher to me so I wouldn't have to repeat it. Geometry makes no sense to me. I don't even know what trigonometry entails.
I am not a stupid person; I have a degree, I read voraciously, I follow current events, I love to learn, but anything beyond basic daily math is a struggle to me, and most of it is out of my reach. My jobs don't require anything beyond rudimentary math, I can balance my checkbook and,yes, figure out a tip. But anything beyond that is not a part of my life, and I'm glad for it.
But it really chaps my hide when people imply that anyone can learn advanced math concepts, and that people who don't understand math are stupid. It's obnoxious, and it says more about you if you think people are stupid because they aren't good at something you are good at.
I'm good at math, some people aren't. Basic math I'm fine with, Algebra is like a foreign language to me.
I saw a Judge Judy episode where she was playing with the calculator to figure something out and commented on how hard math was for her in school. You have to be really smart to be a judge or lawyer, but don't have to be great at math.
This is the problem with the misconception that everyone can be good at math - you say simple trig and geometry. People who "get math" think math is simple. There is nothing simple about geometry or trigonometry to someone who does not understand math. I passed HS geometry (over 20 years ago) with a D and I guarantee you that D was a gift from my teacher to me so I wouldn't have to repeat it. Geometry makes no sense to me. I don't even know what trigonometry entails.
I am not a stupid person; I have a degree, I read voraciously, I follow current events, I love to learn, but anything beyond basic daily math is a struggle to me, and most of it is out of my reach. My jobs don't require anything beyond rudimentary math, I can balance my checkbook and,yes, figure out a tip. But anything beyond that is not a part of my life, and I'm glad for it.
But it really chaps my hide when people imply that anyone can learn advanced math concepts, and that people who don't understand math are stupid. It's obnoxious, and it says more about you if you think people are stupid because they aren't good at something you are good at.
I think that there are valid points and as we all know people can have profound difficulty learning some things (dyslexia etc.) and so math is not any different. Blanket statements about abilities are always wrong.
With that said, nobody should put others down for their lack of ability at math, reading, basketball, cross word puzzles or a host of other activities, it's just not something that should be done by anyone over the age of 16.
Most of the math (especially statistics) I see in the forums around here reminds me of the comedy sketch (I think the wayans brothers) where an obvious idiot embigifies his potificationary verbiosidity in order to sound more educated and informed. The difference being that instead of everyone immediately seeing that they're full of it....a lot of people sadly accept their nonillumificating conclusionarials.
You've spent 30 years around engineers and failed to realize that there are 100s of subspecies of engineers (and scientists) of wildly varied involvement with math? You've been mesmerized that much? Besides, computer age turned formerly involved with math engineers into add ons to software packages, they dont actually do math, it's done by software developers.
You don't get the difference between doing ARITHMETIC versus problem solving using mathematics. Mathematics involves the logic of setting up a problem correctly in order to solve it. Thinking through what needs to be done...then the calculator/software/app does the arithmetic for you. If you don't know how to properly approach the problem a calculator won't be much help. Even if the app lets you "fill in the blanks" you still have to understand what needs to go in the blanks.
Numeracy is not about calculating the cube root of something - it's about understanding the why's behind something. If you don't have some basic skills you won't know when you're being bamboozled by percentages or proportions or discussion of the findings of a medical study...then you're at the mercy of often uneducated journalists trying to report on something they know nothing about. It's great to be able to call BS appropriately.
Part of the "Bad at Math" thing, at least in the US, is that most grade school math teachers are, to be kind, not very good at math. I struggled during 5th grade, because my teacher probably had an IQ of about 90, and approached math as strictly a grind, memorization "uber alles". Which, of course, I rejected. Fortunately I did get a decent tutor, then when I it college, with instructors who *actually were masters of the subject material* (!) I did great.
Take for example estimating a 15% tip mentally. Note, I said "estimate" and not "calculate" because first off being a percent or two high (or even low, really) does not make the answer "wrong". There is no need to measure with a micrometer what you will cut with a chainsaw. So let's say the bill is $52.48. Rather than attack it as trying to figure 15% of that, recall that since 15= 10+5, and that 5 is half of 10, first round the bill up to whole dollars - $53. So 10% of that is $5.30. Half of that, again split the $5 and the $0.30, so half of 5 is 2.50, half of .30 is .15. So $7.80 + .15 = 7.95. Or just get to $7.80, and decide to round up to $8. That damned old biddy back in 5th grade could sooner fly by flapping her arms than think like that.
Like you say, some things like a tip can be estimated because it is not critical. Once you KNOW how to do the CALCULATION then you, through common sense, know when you can safely substitute an estimation versus when something needs to be accurate to 4 decimal places. And yes, you can actually get out a calculator when that is the case, but it helps to understand what is behind the actual need.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
