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How about if I just call you "George" from now on. Why should my opinion of what you're called be any less valid than yours?
Huh? I was not talking about the name as such, but about the claims that were made about today's AA's retaining African heritage.
Regarding the name, both names make little sense.
AA's are not black, they are brown, so why not call them Browns?
And African? As long as whites are not referred to as European-Americans, I see no point in AA, either. And given the genetic mix AA's have, even with DNA testing they can't clearly say that they are for instance Nigerian-American. I still don't see the point in trying to lump millions of people together and thus give them a name in the first place. That only happens with people who want to segregate society in one way or another because they think they have to stick together and unite against the inferior or evil rest.
Here in Miami there are plenty of Haitian, Jamaican and other west indies immigrants. Even black latinos from the Caribbean countries.
I often wonder if they feel confortable with the AA label.
Huh? I was not talking about the name as such, but about the claims that were made about today's AA's retaining African heritage.
Regarding the name, both names make little sense.
AA's are not black, they are brown, so why not call them Browns?
And African? As long as whites are not referred to as European-Americans, I see no point in AA, either. And given the genetic mix AA's have, even with DNA testing they can't clearly say that they are for instance Nigerian-American. I still don't see the point in trying to lump millions of people together and thus give them a name in the first place.
And English is just as much Saxonish as it is Anglish. So?
And are you really going to be so disingenuous as to pretend there aren't plenty of people in the US who acknowledge themselves "Italian-American" or "Irish-America" or "German-American?"
Quote:
That only happens with people who want to segregate society in one way or another because they think they have to stick together and unite against the inferior or evil rest.
Yeah. Both sides--as though you're unaware of plenty of white people who cling to being "white."
Here in Miami there are plenty of Haitian, Jamaican and other west indies immigrants. Even black latinos from the Caribbean countries.
I often wonder if they feel confortable with the AA label.
Maybe the 2nd or 3rd generation won't mind anymore, but 1st generation immigrants come from very specific places, so they might not like getting lumped together with AA's. I think AA implies that people have lived in the US for many generations.
And English is just as much Saxonish as it is Anglish. So?
And are you really going to be so disingenuous as to pretend there aren't plenty of people in the US who acknowledge themselves "Italian-American" or "Irish-America" or "German-American?"
Yeah. Both sides--as though you're unaware of plenty of white people who cling to being "white."
English is a mix of various languages, not just those two.
Yes, Irish-Americans refer to themselves that way because they know the specific country their ancestors came from, Ireland. Often they can even trace back all their relatives. But they don't refer to themselves as European-Americans, which would be the analogy to African-American. What would the point of the term European-American be when everyone can see someone is (seemingly) white? As I said terms such as Irish-American only serve to separate people and avoid being simply American. Fortunately some Americans do state just that in surveys, they no longer care about ethnicity.
Look at other countries with different ethnic groups. As long as people pay attention to that, they try not to mix and there tend to be problems, which in the worst case can culminate in civil wars.
English is a mix of various languages, not just those two.
Yes, Irish-Americans refer to themselves that way because they know the specific country their ancestors came from, Ireland. Often they can even trace back all their relatives. But they don't refer to themselves as European-Americans, which would be the analogy to African-American. What would the point of the term European-American be when everyone can see someone is (seemingly) white? As I said terms such as Irish-American only serve to separate people and avoid being simply American. Fortunately some Americans do state just that in surveys, they no longer care about ethnicity.
Look at other countries with different ethnic groups. As long as people pay attention to that, they try not to mix and there tend to be problems, which in the worst case can culminate in civil wars.
jwkilgore post #22:
"African American" is not a race; it is an ethnic group. It is a group of people with a shared cultural history who also happen to be of the same race. Taken literally it refers to any American with African ancestry, but generally people limit the term to only apply to descendants of slaves living in the United States of America. That's what thriftylefty meant as a definition of how he sees himself.
A dark-skinned person with African ancestry who lives in, say, Africa, is not an African American. Likewise a recent dark-skinned immigrant to the US from Sudan wouldn't be considered African American; he would be a Sudaneese-American.
Herodotus post #51:
The use of African-American came about in response to certain whites who complained about the existence of certain black organizations and events. They usually would ask "why can't we have white this, and white that? The answer was that whites do, but it's usually based on ethnicity. While people would frown on an amusement park having a "white day", no one would have a problem with them having a Polish-American, or Italian-American Day. Since black people lost their original ethnicity during slavery, race has to double as ethnicity. The use of African-American was supposed to portray blacks as an ethnic group.
thriftylefty post #89:
African -American is a term similar to the term Scotch -Irish. They both are almost exclusively used only in America and they both are terms that are not intended to define a persons ancestry, but the; social, political, historical and geographical upheaval and complexities which brought them to the new world. The debate over "what to be called" is part of the social, political, geographical and historical complexities of being an American whose DNA will forever link them to the Atlantic Slave Trade.
Ralph_Kirk post #117:
... the groups of Africans transferred to the Americas, held as slaves or freed at some point after slavery, whose ancestors lived in a Jim Crow social oppression for another century after that, have come to form a fairly distinct people-group with a culture an heritage that is not the same as other Americans and is at least as distinctive as the difference between Mexicans and Spaniards.
Wikipedia:
African-American history starts in the 16th century, with Africans forcibly taken as slaves to Spanish America, and in the 17th century with African slaves taken to English colonies in North America. After the founding of the United States, black people continued to be enslaved, with four million denied freedom from bondage prior to the Civil War. Believed to be inferior to white people, they were treated as second-class citizens. The Naturalization Act of 1790 limited U.S. citizenship to whites only, and only white men of property could vote.
Now, if you can coin what you think is a more accurate term for what is a clearly identifiable ethnic group, I'm willing to hear your suggestion.
I share some of the remarks in those posts you quoted, for instance that race has been equaled with ethnicity in this case. Italian-American is an ethnic group, whereas African-American is basically a racial group. And when AA is considered an ethnic group, that actually arose and exists in the US and nowhere else, it is odd that it includes Africa as a common trait, while modern immigrants from Africa are not AA's
Maybe I or someone else could come up with a new term, but why would I even try? I would support separating those people from the rest of society and pretend they are somehow different and separate, maybe even outsiders. I can't even think of situations where I would have to lump tens of millions of people together and label them.
Maybe I or someone else could come up with a new term, but why would I even try? I would support separating those people from the rest of society and pretend they are somehow different and separate, maybe even outsiders. I can't even think of situations where I would have to lump tens of millions of people together and label them.
When I was a kid, my youngest aunt was still in high school. She played clarinet for the marching band.
One spring, my mother took me downtown to watch the town spring parade. I saw the marching band and looked hard for my aunt...but I didn't see her. I didn't yet understand what school segregation was all about, and I probably would not have immediately understood this additional facet either.
I asked my mother, "Where is Aunt Faith?"
My mother told me, "This is the white people's parade. We can't be in their parade."
A parade is an exposition of the community culture. A parade is intended to say, "This is who we are." The fact that black people were excluded from the town parade was a very blatant exclusion from even being recognized as part of their culture.
By the time I was a teenager in the 60s, I had realized that I didn't particularly want to be part of that culture.
I think it would be hard to make a true statement (excluding population data) prefaced by; Blacks in America....... Although I can think of many true statements prefaced by; African Americans in America..... Only if the two terms can be universally interchangeable within any context you have a choice. And that holds true if I accept any definition of African American.
Last edited by thriftylefty; 04-12-2016 at 03:53 PM..
Location: In a little house on the prairie - literally
10,202 posts, read 7,919,184 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ralph_Kirk
Perhaps you should read most closely. I said:
You're correct, I should have read more closely. I stand corrected on that point.
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