Are anti-vaxxers liable if their children spread preventable diseases? (health care, insurance, school)
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Are we not vaccinated so that we can not catch what ever it is that we would have caught? So if my kids are all vaccinated and your kid is not vaccinated, how will my kids get what ever it is that your kid may have? Does the vaccine only work when the disease is carried around by pets or bats, or rabid dogs? From what I can tell, if my kid is vaccinated and your kid is not, then I should not have to worry too much if my vaccinated kid is running around with your non vaccinated kid.
If there is some kind of concern that my kid will get what ever your kid has then maybe we need to go after the companies that made the vaccination because it must not work that well if my kid can still catch what ever it is that your kid has.
These kids were up to date on their vaccinations, although youngest ones had not completed the series. As you said, if these vaccinations are supposed to PREVENT the disease, why were these vaccinated kids getting whooping cough at all? If this NEW Pertussis vaccine among the fully vaccinated is not preventing the disease, then why bother? There will never be 100% compliance for every man, woman, and child in the USA.
You are also right about Pertussis. If it is not working/waning, then instead of targeting the "unvaccinated", child or adult, then maybe you need to sue the vaccine manufacturers for a failed product. Oh, wait, CANNOT DO THAT.
this post has not a thing to do with the subject at hand.......
the same people who took care of the people born with Downs Syndrome because their mothers were exposed to measles before there was a vaccine to prevent measles..... I knew two families, little ol' me, who had sons this happened to.....
oh, wait.... that vaccine has been around quite a number of years now..... so I am sure those people are long gone...... but you get the picture......
and one last point to ponder..... a child sick with an easily preventable illness will often not display symptoms until days after infection..... meanwhile, exposing everyone he comes in contact with until Mommy realizes he is actually sick and finally keeps him home.....
We aren't long gone. I am 67 and had measles as a baby, LONG before that vaccine ever came out. I had a Cousin with Downs. Because there was no Measles vax back then? His Mama had measles as a CHILD. She couldn't get measles, again, and therefore could not give it to her unborn child causing DOWNS. I find this very insulting to my Cousin.
When I had my own kids 30+ years ago, was my OB worried about my unborn babies getting measles???? No, because Mama HAD measles herself as a child, and would pass on her antibodies to her own unborn.
AGAIN, you people seem to think that the only immunity there is comes from a vaccination.
What? The elderly haven't been vaccinated for those diseases because they HAD those diseases in childhood. Please do not worry about some unvaccinated child giving Grandpa the measles, mumps, chicken pox, etc., and killing him. He has lifetime immunity from the diseases themselves.
Do you really think the ONLY path to immunity is from a shot in the arm?
You and I are the same age. I had measles, rubella, and chickenpox. I never had mumps, diphtheria, pertussis, or tetanus. I was vaccinated for all of those.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
That never happened when my kids were little, but it happen to me as a adult walking in a cemetery. I pulled the nail out, bled a lot, and I put peroxide and bandage on it. Never ran to the ER to get a tetanus shot. That peroxide must have done trick since this happened over 40 years ago.
I would have done the same if it happened to my kids.
You and I are about the same age. Weren't you vaccinated against diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus? Although boosters are recommended for those, some protection remains even if you skip the boosters.
Taking a risk that your child will get tetanus is asinine.
What would you do if you discovered your child had been asleep in a room with a bat. The bat gets away and cannot be tested for rabies. Would you want him to have the rabies vaccine? What if it were you who waked up and there was a bat in your bedroom that got away and could not be tested for rabies. Vaccine or no vaccine?
I haven't paid much attention to this anti-vaxxing phenomenon until a couple days ago Robert Deniro mentioned that his wife noticed their child develop autistic symptoms overnight after receiving a vaccine with mercury as a basic ingredient in it.
Robert Deniro is a fairly level-headed man.
Perhaps some children in very rare cases really are developing autism after vaccination.
As for my kids, they've all been 100% vaccinated with no problems. I'm pro-vaccination.
If indeed some children are developing autism over this, I hate to say it but isn't it better to have a rare child here & there with autism than an epidemic outbreak of horribly crippling, deadly diseases?
I haven't been following Robert Deniro in the news but if he is saying that his wife noticed their child had developed autism symptoms overnight post vaccination then I would say that is something that a number (not all) of parents of children with autism have shared. The opposition always claims that the symptoms had to have already been there prior and the parent just didn't notice or that it's just the age when autism appears and has nothing to do with vaccines. I think it's a link that is commonly enough reported to be worthy of a closer look. Autism, however is not the only concern that people have with vaccines nor is it the only reason why people may choose to forgo certain vaccines or all of them.
The vast majority of parents vaccinate on schedule. It should be up to the parent to become educated on the topic, talk to healthcare professionals, etc. and weigh the risks for their child and in all cases to make the final decision as to whether to vaccinate or not. It should not be a decision left to the government in a supposed free society as that sets a dangerous precedent that ultimately chips away at our freedom as parents and as individuals.
You and I are the same age. I had measles, rubella, and chickenpox. I never had mumps, diphtheria, pertussis, or tetanus. I was vaccinated for all of those.
You and I are about the same age. Weren't you vaccinated against diphtheria, pertussis, and tetanus? Although boosters are recommended for those, some protection remains even if you skip the boosters.
Taking a risk that your child will get tetanus is asinine.
What would you do if you discovered your child had been asleep in a room with a bat. The bat gets away and cannot be tested for rabies. Would you want him to have the rabies vaccine? What if it were you who waked up and there was a bat in your bedroom that got away and could not be tested for rabies. Vaccine or no vaccine?
Unless you are talking about our ability to sue a rusty nail or a bat, the discussion concerning tetanus and rabies is pretty far off topic for this discussion, don't you think?
These kids were up to date on their vaccinations, although youngest ones had not completed the series. As you said, if these vaccinations are supposed to PREVENT the disease, why were these vaccinated kids getting whooping cough at all? If this NEW Pertussis vaccine among the fully vaccinated is not preventing the disease, then why bother? There will never be 100% compliance for every man, woman, and child in the USA.
You are also right about Pertussis. If it is not working/waning, then instead of targeting the "unvaccinated", child or adult, then maybe you need to sue the vaccine manufacturers for a failed product. Oh, wait, CANNOT DO THAT.
Yes, people who have been vaccinated can still get pertussis, but 8 out of 10 who are exposed who have been vaccinated do not get it. Without the vaccine 8 out of 10 who are exposed will get it. Having it does not provide permanent immunity either.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
We aren't long gone. I am 67 and had measles as a baby, LONG before that vaccine ever came out. I had a Cousin with Downs. Because there was no Measles vax back then? His Mama had measles as a CHILD. She couldn't get measles, again, and therefore could not give it to her unborn child causing DOWNS. I find this very insulting to my Cousin.
When I had my own kids 30+ years ago, was my OB worried about my unborn babies getting measles???? No, because Mama HAD measles herself as a child, and would pass on her antibodies to her own unborn.
AGAIN, you people seem to think that the only immunity there is comes from a vaccination.
Down syndrome is not caused by an intrauterine infection. It is genetic; affected individuals have an extra chromosome.
Yes, thirty years ago obstetricians worried about pregnant mothers getting rubella (not measles so much). It has been a concern since the early 1940s. Prevention of birth defects due to rubella was the primary reason a vaccine was developed in the first place.
Obviously a woman who had already had rubella was not at risk. She would not get it again and her fetus was not at risk. However, not everyone got rubella as a child.
"A rubella epidemic in the United States in 1964-1965 resulted in 12.5 million cases of rubella infection and about 20,000 newborns with CRS. [congenital rubella syndrome]. The estimated cost of the epidemic was $840 million. This does not include the emotional toll on the families involved."
Obstetricians have recommended testing for immunity to rubella for pregnant women ever since such a test became available.
Should he be sued? While he got his childhood vaccination DPT, apparently he never got a Tdap in adulthood. Who did he catch it from? Follow the "trail" of anyone he ever came into contact with as a Congressman travelling all around the state, on planes, hotels, restaurants, DC, etc., for a MONTH. How many hands did he shake alone?
Just imagine all the people he came into contact with. Impeach him? Throw him in jail for "non-compliance" with the CDC vaccination schedule? I think some on this thread would think he should receive "repercussions" for not being fully vaccinated, including as an adult.
Sue parents of unvaccinated children? Sounds they won't be the only ones if some get their way.
I haven't been following Robert Deniro in the news but if he is saying that his wife noticed their child had developed autism symptoms overnight post vaccination then I would say that is something that a number (not all) of parents of children with autism have shared. The opposition always claims that the symptoms had to have already been there prior and the parent just didn't notice or that it's just the age when autism appears and has nothing to do with vaccines. I think it's a link that is commonly enough reported to be worthy of a closer look. Autism, however is not the only concern that people have with vaccines nor is it the only reason why people may choose to forgo certain vaccines or all of them.
The vast majority of parents vaccinate on schedule. It should be up to the parent to become educated on the topic, talk to healthcare professionals, etc. and weigh the risks for their child and in all cases to make the final decision as to whether to vaccinate or not. It should not be a decision left to the government in a supposed free society as that sets a dangerous precedent that ultimately chips away at our freedom as parents and as individuals.
It has been looked at ad nauseum. Vaccinated children are no more likely to have autism than unvaccinated children.
What concerns do you have about vaccines other than autism? Which of those concerns has been scientifically demonstrated to be more likely to happen than serious morbidity or mortality from the disease the vaccine prevents? Internet anecdotes are not acceptable data.
You may choose not to vaccinate your child. It is well established that government has the right to mandate vaccination for school children. If you do not vaccinate, just make other arrangements for your child's education.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MissTerri
Unless you are talking about our ability to sue a rusty nail or a bat, the discussion concerning tetanus and rabies is pretty far off topic for this discussion, don't you think?
I was not the one who initially brought up tetanus. I mentioned rabies because I have been curious whether any one who opposes vaccines would take the vaccine if exposed or give it to a child who was exposed. It goes to the mindset of people who refuse vaccines, and vaccine refusers are indeed the topic under discussion.
Yes, people who have been vaccinated can still get pertussis, but 8 out of 10 who are exposed who have been vaccinated do not get it. Without the vaccine 8 out of 10 who are exposed will get it. Having it does not provide permanent immunity either.
Down syndrome is not caused by an intrauterine infection. It is genetic; affected individuals have an extra chromosome.
Yes, thirty years ago obstetricians worried about pregnant mothers getting rubella (not measles so much). It has been a concern since the early 1940s. Prevention of birth defects due to rubella was the primary reason a vaccine was developed in the first place.
Obviously a woman who had already had rubella was not at risk. She would not get it again and her fetus was not at risk. However, not everyone got rubella as a child.
"A rubella epidemic in the United States in 1964-1965 resulted in 12.5 million cases of rubella infection and about 20,000 newborns with CRS. [congenital rubella syndrome]. The estimated cost of the epidemic was $840 million. This does not include the emotional toll on the families involved."
Obstetricians have recommended testing for immunity to rubella for pregnant women ever since such a test became available.
I will thank you for posting this. Too many are very ignorant of acquired natural immunity, not to mention the cause of "Downs". Yes, pregnant women were tested for Rubella antibodies, but not for other diseases like measles. I cannot speak for all of our parents back in those days, but my parents certainly told me what diseases I had in childhood, most likely because I was too young to remember them myself.
It has been looked at ad nauseum. Vaccinated children are no more likely to have autism than unvaccinated children.
What concerns do you have about vaccines other than autism? Which of those concerns has been scientifically demonstrated to be more likely to happen than serious morbidity or mortality from the disease the vaccine prevents? Internet anecdotes are not acceptable data.
You may choose not to vaccinate your child. It is well established that government has the right to mandate vaccination for school children. If you do not vaccinate, just make other arrangements for your child's education.
It has not been looked at as thoroughly as you pretend. People have real concerns and they don't need to justify those concerns to you or anyone else for that matter. People have the right to refuse getting injected with vaccines.
The government does mandate vaccines for school children. What more do you want? It seems you won't be satisfied unless there is 100% compliance among all children, public, private homeschooled, etc. I'd bet you'd support mandatory vaccines for all adults as well. What consequence would you like to impose in adults? How far would you like to go with this?
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