Are anti-vaxxers liable if their children spread preventable diseases? (countries, pregnancy, parent)
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I am 68 years old. I was fully vaccinated according to the schedules that existed in the late 1940s and early 1950s. I did get the measles and chicken pox as a child. All the neighborhood kids did, and we all recovered fine. I did not get mumps or whooping cough. I was innoculated against polio.
One thing that I definitely notice between then and now -- kids were a lot healthier back in my childhood. There was either no autism, or the rate of it was so far below today's that it seemed there was none. Childhood diseases were not considered "life-threatening". It wasn't much worse than the flu, and when one of us came down with something, parents sent their kids over to "visit" hoping they'd get one more childhood illness out of the way.
We never had any of this ADD or ADHD, either. Kids sat still in school, and paid attention. Ritalin and other such drugs for kids, was unheard of. Sending a kid to a mental health doctor was considered silly. We didn't need it.
Today I look around and see a vastly different childhood landscape. Kids everywhere are sick, disabled, obese, or on medications. What the heck happened??? Children are supposed to be healthy. They were back in my day.
Whatever it is, we're somehow failing our kids. I'm glad I'm not a kid today!
Excellent points. Regarding the medication of every "issue" under the sun, you may enjoy watching "Prescription Thugs", available on Netflix.
Oh Suzy, you are taking a study that I did not post and picking it apart. What's the matter with the study I shared? Why are you taking a different study by the same author instead of the one I shared?
Anyways, her credentials are completely appropriate for a researcher. Aluminum really is a known neurotoxin. I don't trust your interpretation of the study as I have seen how you cherry pick and twist things hoping that you can manipulate those who you know won't bother to read it and check your facts. If I have the time and energy to read it later, I might but it's a beautiful day and all of this arguing is counterproductive so maybe not. Everything else in your post we've been over and over and over. Sorry you can't admit when you are wrong. It's counterproductive to continue to go over these points with you again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Very relevant to that Merck failed Mumps vaccine, apparently Harvard (40) is not alone in that outbreak. Neighboring schools, BU and Tufts, are having their own Mumps cases on campus. Sports teams playing each other probably spread it to other colleges; just like it did throughout the vaccinated players in the NHL.
Sacred Heart University in Fairfield, Ct., has had 8 cases, and investigating others. The school issued a statement saying that all 8 students had received their full dose of 2 MMR vaccinations. When my daughter played hockey in Maine, they played against colleges in both Boston and Ct. Athletes are notorious for just grabbing a water bottle, drinking, and not paying attention to whose it is.
Not connected to those, but the University at Dayton has reported 10 cases of Mumps among students. They issued a statement also saying that the school requires their students to have received 2 MMR vaccinations prior to admission, unless they were born before 1956.
Sounds to me like this vaccine is not working for Mumps. Hello, Merck. 80% effective is not very good, especially when nobody can tell where a college student goes on their Winter or Spring break.
Yep, lots of fully vaccinated coming down with mumps.
"“I’m actually more concerned now than I was during any time of the outbreak,” Barreira told the Crimson. “I’m desperate to get students to take it seriously that they shouldn’t be infecting one another.”
I guess the the Medical Community hasn't gotten the message across to young adults how serious and deadly mumps are, and of course every other disease (in addition to the Flu) which there is a vaccination for.
These students are of the age (under 35's) who overwhelmingly believe that vaccination should be the choice of the individual according to all the polls. Hint. Better pull that "Beaver Get the Mumps" with all it's canned laughter off the Internet so they cannot watch that.
What are they doing? Refusing isolation? Going back to their off campus apartments and infecting their Roommates?
Excellent points. Regarding the medication of every "issue" under the sun, you may enjoy watching "Prescription Thugs", available on Netflix.
Americans are the most over-medicated Society in the world when 70%, including children, take at least one medication daily. 30% of the elderly are taking 5 or more medications daily. With the exception of antibiotics, these are not to cure anything, but "control" symptoms. Some will be taken for the rest of a person's lifetime. Pain and Anti-Depressants are at the top of the list. Cures will not keep patients coming back for more and more.
I am 68 years old. I was fully vaccinated according to the schedules that existed in the late 1940s and early 1950s. I did get the measles and chicken pox as a child. All the neighborhood kids did, and we all recovered fine. I did not get mumps or whooping cough. I was innoculated against polio.
One thing that I definitely notice between then and now -- kids were a lot healthier back in my childhood. There was either no autism, or the rate of it was so far below today's that it seemed there was none. Childhood diseases were not considered "life-threatening". It wasn't much worse than the flu, and when one of us came down with something, parents sent their kids over to "visit" hoping they'd get one more childhood illness out of the way.
We never had any of this ADD or ADHD, either. Kids sat still in school, and paid attention. Ritalin and other such drugs for kids, was unheard of. Sending a kid to a mental health doctor was considered silly. We didn't need it.
Today I look around and see a vastly different childhood landscape. Kids everywhere are sick, disabled, obese, or on medications. What the heck happened??? Children are supposed to be healthy. They were back in my day.
Whatever it is, we're somehow failing our kids. I'm glad I'm not a kid today!
The kids with severe autism were frequently institutionalized. The ones who were high functioning were either just quiet nerds or thought to be a bit weird. Those with ADHD might have been treated with the belt instead of medication. DH is almost 72; his best friend when he was growing up obviously had Asperger's in retrospect.
The diseases we vaccinate for are life threatening.
As many as one out of every 20 children with measles gets pneumonia, the most common cause of death from measles in young children.
About one child out of every 1,000 who get measles will develop encephalitis (swelling of the brain) that can lead to convulsions and can leave the child deaf or with intellectual disability.
For every 1,000 children who get measles, one or two will die from it.
A very rare complication is a condition called sclerosing subacute panencephalitis, which happens years after recovery from the initial infection and is inevitably fatal. A 14 year old boy died from it here in the US last year. He had measles when he was two years old.
The most common birth defects from CRS can include:
Deafness
Cataracts
Heart defects
Intellectual disabilities
Liver and spleen damage
Low birth weight
Skin rash at birth
Less common complications from CRS can include:
Glaucoma
Brain damage
Thyroid and other hormone problems
Inflammation of the lungs
Just because you or your friends did not die or have any permanent handicaps from your childhood illnesses did not mean no one did.
I am afraid many of the health problems in kids to day can be traced to too much food and too little activity. It's not vaccines that are doing it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Sounds to me like this vaccine is not working for Mumps. Hello, Merck. 80% effective is not very good, especially when nobody can tell where a college student goes on their Winter or Spring break.
Do we really need to go through the math lesson again that explains why during an outbreak there are people who are vaccinated? Either your memory is short or you are being deliberately misleading, but I will review it for you.
Take 20,000 people and vaccinate 95% of them: 19,000. With your 80% effectiveness number, 3800 of those are still at risk to get mumps.
Mumps has an attack rate of 30%, much lower than measles.
Expose all 20,000 to mumps. Of the 3800 for whom the vaccine fails, 30% of them get mumps: 1140.
Of the original 20,000, 5% or 1000, are not vaccinated. If exposed, 30%, or 300, will get mumps.
So more vaccinated people got mumps, right? But wait a minute, we have to look at who did not get mumps. Of those who were vaccinated, 17,860 did not get mumps. The risk of getting mumps in that population is 1140 divided by 19,000= 6%. The risk of catching mumps for the unvaccinated group was 30%. That means that if you were unvaccinated, even with a vaccine with an 80% effectiveness rate, your risk of getting mumps is 30 divided by 6 = 5 times greater.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jo48
Plus everyone lives in fear of catching these diseases, including the Flu!!! They shut down an entire school if a couple of kids get measles or chicken pox?
Do you remember quarantine signs for Measles on people's doors? Yes, go "visit" your sick friend so you will catch measles or mumps, and get it as young as possible.
I am very happy my own are adults today since they received nothing in comparison to what is given today, let alone what we got back as kids.
The fear mongering accusation towards those who advocate for vaccines is getting tiresome, Jo. The anti-vaccine crusaders use fear, especially fear of autism, as their major weapon, although since the autism theory has been shot out of the water they have moved on to alleging vaccines cause everything from SIDS to MS.
Fear of the potential for serious illness and permanent handicaps or death caused by vaccine preventable diseases is a healthy fear, just like fear of getting burned keeps you from poking your fingers in an open flame.
Suzy Q's statement that, Zika vaccine will have to be given to "everyone" at first. Really? Suzy, do you seriously think that 90% (Herd Immunity) of 18 million people just in the state of Florida alone are going to agree to roll up their sleeves for a new Zika vaccine? While the majority would be perfectly willing to put on bug spray, cover up, drain standing water, or maybe even GMO Mosquitoes, only a small fraction (pregnant women and their partners?) will agree to take a Zika vaccine.
I am 68 years old. I was fully vaccinated according to the schedules that existed in the late 1940s and early 1950s. I did get the measles and chicken pox as a child. All the neighborhood kids did, and we all recovered fine. I did not get mumps or whooping cough. I was innoculated against polio.
One thing that I definitely notice between then and now -- kids were a lot healthier back in my childhood. There was either no autism, or the rate of it was so far below today's that it seemed there was none. Childhood diseases were not considered "life-threatening". It wasn't much worse than the flu, and when one of us came down with something, parents sent their kids over to "visit" hoping they'd get one more childhood illness out of the way.
We never had any of this ADD or ADHD, either. Kids sat still in school, and paid attention. Ritalin and other such drugs for kids, was unheard of. Sending a kid to a mental health doctor was considered silly. We didn't need it.
Today I look around and see a vastly different childhood landscape. Kids everywhere are sick, disabled, obese, or on medications. What the heck happened??? Children are supposed to be healthy. They were back in my day.
Whatever it is, we're somehow failing our kids. I'm glad I'm not a kid today!
In the late 1970's my brother was an early Ritalin child because he was diagnosed with ADHD. He was a high-strung, difficult, always crying & getting into trouble child. In his case it can probably be traced to being a Diethylstilbestrol baby.
Other more current cases of ADHD I am convinced come from the effects on children's minds when watching TV. The media is increasingly absolutely nuts, and this is what's been shaping our recent generation's minds. Parents are so busy working, they sit their kids in front of tv & computer screens during all leisure time, and fear of stranger danger keeps kids locked indoors instead of being out playing in the fresh air.
Last edited by Zelpha; 05-02-2016 at 01:28 PM..
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