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Years ago I invited a number of British drug squads to a US Air Force Base in England for a social evening with my lads - who also conducted international drug investigations. They drank the Officer's Club out of Michelob (no kidding), so at 1:00 AM we walked over to the NCO club. Lots of NCOs enjoying a Friday night out and lots more beer.
About 1:30 AM, the DJ put Lee Greenwood's "God Bless the USA" on at top volume. By the third note, every American in the club was on his or her feet, singing along at the top of their lungs. We probably sounded terrible, but the beer mitigated.
The Brits just stared at us slack-jawed.
When it was over, the head of one British unit told me he was amazed at the depth of our patriotism. He said he had never seen such a display by his countrymen. Then he leaned close so none of his colleagues would hear, and quietly said, "No wonder you're a superpower..."
Patriotism has its place.
Because of the pavlovian response ingrained in our military personnel?
If our country were attacked would you take up arms and fight with the attackers?
If the administration moved to make Sharia law the law of the land would you support a foreign culture?
When you go to a ball game to you cheer for the opposing team?
Do you vote opposite of your preferred political party?
Are these decisions going to affect your loved ones in any way?
Putting your nation first helps to ensure the protection and continuance of established values and culture. Not to say these things must remain static and can not be improved and expanded. We have power to change the things that are wrong. That is part of our culture and one of our values as a nation. We have come a long way since the founding fathers towards equality and peace. No nation is perfect but the founding fathers did leave us with a framework that allows us to evolve, hopefully in the right direction. I guess if you don't value the freedoms, traditions and culture of this country then there is no reason to hold it in higher regard than any other country. I just dont understand if someone does not why they choose to live in this country and reap the benefits.
I think one poster is correct when they said there is a massive difference between ignorant patriotism and informed patriotism.
Ignorant patriotism results in believing in propaganda such as the idea that America will adopt Sharia Law and the Vietnam war was a good idea.
Informed patriotism is questioning the information given and questioning what you are told by all sides. It is acknowledging both the strengths and weaknesses of this country and seeking to improve instead of thinking we are completely perfect and unflawed or that we are better then some other countries so we should rest on our laurels.
It does good to define what specifically we mean when we say patriot. I'm a patriot in the sense that I think the Delcaration and constitution are both masterfully written and the people who wrote them were among the best statesmen who ever lived. But that's where it ends.
The problem with patriotism is that it usually ends up being superficial and promoted by the government as a propaganda piece. Case and point; the troops. Certainly, I do not deny their bravery. I do deny that they defend my freedom. Saddam did not represent a threat to me or my liberty. From a technical standpoint, Hitler barely represented a threat to anyone in America. But, there are just wars of course and taking out Hitler (which technically the Soviet did) was one of them. That said, I don't care how many times W came on TV and said it; literally no soldier died in Iraq for me. Not one. Bush said that they did becasue he knew the war was unpopular, so he changed the narrative. Having disdain for the troops is having hatred for America.
Now, I don't personally advocate for hating troops. As I said, I think they're brave for what they're willing to do but I have no delusion that I have anything to thank them for. Sorry. Saddam wasn't after me. ISIS wouldn't be after me if we weren't imperialists and even then, statistically ISIS represents almost no threat to me. I refuse to think that I need to act as if every solider is far above me just because government propaganda has told them they are. Fact is, most soldiers I've met really don't want the attention. And the ones who do don't deserve it.
Loving ones country for the culture and values is perfectly fine. I don't feel it's a minimum expectation, but I also don't think it's foolish. But supporting your country blindly is, especially when public officials say you should. It's a veil to get complacency and I have no respect for those who buy into it.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troyfan
Patriotism has been held in all ages to be the noblest feeling of Man. The opinions of a few cranks who are unable to rise to its demands is of no consequence.
Did you just call Voltaire an old crank? That saddens me greatly that you've never read his work.
The USA has created a significant amount of intellectual property and we were the starters of the industrial revolution. Even in todays times there really are no other nations keeping up.
I think one poster is correct when they said there is a massive difference between ignorant patriotism and informed patriotism.
Ignorant patriotism results in believing in propaganda such as the idea that America will adopt Sharia Law and the Vietnam war was a good idea.
Informed patriotism is questioning the information given and questioning what you are told by all sides. It is acknowledging both the strengths and weaknesses of this country and seeking to improve instead of thinking we are completely perfect and unflawed or that we are better then some other countries so we should rest on our laurels.
My cousin with a military and a police background has shamed me too often for not being patriotic, or more patriotic, for a variety of reasons, and I oftentimes have felt ashamed that I'm not. But, I came across some sayings recently, and now I feel much better now about why I shouldn't be patriotic.
George Bernard Shaw: You'll never have a quiet world 'til you knock the patriotism out of the human race.
Paul Leautaud: Love makes fools, marriage cuckolds, and patriotism malevolent imbeciles.
Bertrand Russell: Patriotism is the willingness to kill and be killed for trivial reasons.
Guy De Maupassant: Patriotism is a kind of religion, it's the egg from which wars are hatched.
William Randolph Hearst: A politician will do anything to keep his job, even become a patriot.
Luis Bunuel: God and country are an unbeatable team, they break all records for oppression and bloodshed.
Voltaire: It is lamentable that to be a good patriot, one must become the enemy of the rest of mankind.
So, how do you view patriotism? Something to be proud of or ashamed of?
I imagine there are as many definitions of what it means to be patriotic as there are people. So it depends on what you mean. But I don't think not being patriotic is anything to be ashamed of.
Patriotic means almost the same thing as nationalistic, to me. Some people don't think in terms of countries. And indeed, the world is becoming more global. We are all part of the world, after all. We breathe the same air, share the same oceans, view the same sky.
Some people go overboard by being overly city-centric, too. Like there's nowhere in the world as great as (insert city name). Every place has its own charm and value. Every country, too.
Solely your opinion. Millions of Americans in 1860 and to this day disagree with you. Why don't you read up on what James Madison had to say about the idea of secession.
Or read the definitive Supreme Court decision on the matter in Texas v White (1869) pointing out that under the Constitution, there is no unilateral right of states to secede from the union, and that all acts by any state or by its legislature during a time of proclaiming secession are null and void.
Solely your opinion. Millions of Americans in 1860 and to this day disagree with you. Why don't you read up on what James Madison had to say about the idea of secession.
They were not tried for treason. At the time it was within their rights to secede.
We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.—That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,—That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness
I think the Declaration of Independence trumps what James Madison had to say.
While the origin of the saying may indeed be uncertain, there is little reason to doubt the truth of the claim that "When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag and carrying a cross."
Though they well might have been tried, convicted, and executed for it. It's not like there was any "reasonable doubt" of it involved.
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2mares
At the time it was within their rights to secede.
It was never their right. From it's earliest form, this has been a perpetual union. Once you join, the only way out is to petition for the approval of those you would leave behind and then receive it.
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), so at 1:00 AM we walked over to the NCO club. Lots of NCOs enjoying a Friday night out and lots more beer. 
