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My feelings to this are if you aren't patriotic for this country then move to the country of your choice. I have a son who said he sees no reason to like America. Now granted he is 14 and still very young but I told him to pack his bags and feel free to move away when he is old enough. I honestly feel that way for anyone who isn't for our country.
IMO, to be patriotic is to criticize your country when it's in need of it, and try to change it for the better.
Check the local city forums, and oftentimes: If you don't like it here, move!
And those that take that advice, should have stayed put and made their city a better place to live!
So if your son takes your advice, moves to Canada, it will come down to: Our loss, their gain!
Since we've been discussing the Vietnam war era, it was back then that this sentiment first came up. "If you don't like it here, go live in Soviet Russia!" What this sentiment fails to grasp is that Russia was (*ahem* "is") where people who are ok with not being allowed to criticize would feel at home. What characterizes the US, and what is one key basis for patriotism towards it, is freedom of speech. If you can't criticize and work to improve things, it's not the US anymore. It's no longer the Land of Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness. If you don't like listening to people complain or criticize, move to Russia.
The USA may yet become a nation where criticism of the ruling Administration is deemed criminal. I say this because of the stated opinions of many Trump supporters who apparently feel that his election victory gave them carte blanche to do whatever they want.
It would be nice if the US were as altruistic as you're suggesting here. But that's not the case. The US defends its interests just as other nations do. There are plenty of people around the world that need their rights defended but the US does nothing for myriad reasons one of which is that doing so wouldn't directly benefit the US.
Again, after studying history and experiencing more of the world it became clear to me that the US and Americans are not special in the world.
Then why are we at every earthquake, tsunami or other disaster helping?
And what do you say of the Immigrant "patriots" who moved to this country to make all the money they could, and return to their native countries to retire? I work with a slew of Filipino's in a healthcare facility, 50% are Filipino, and most of them save enough money to have a retirement home in the Philippines. And? Adios, USA! And where do they spend all their hard-earned money for vacations?
My Mexican roommate has been in this country for almost 40 years, and he'll be headed for his retirement home in Guadalajara!
Did those people work hard and make this country better for their presence?
Back in the day immigration was a one-way street, and maybe it should be again. Migrants had little or no contact with the home country. Mail was slow, uncertain and exposed the old country recipients to danger. Telephone calls were, pre-WW I difficult to make and incredibly expensive, I'm guessing at least $15 for three minutes, or about $150 or more in today's money. Not affordable on subsistence wages. Nowadays texting, emails, even Skype are free. Eye to eye communications were visionary and expensive. Think the "picturephone" displays at the 1964 New York City Worlds Fair. Now it's easy and either cheap or free. So people can have one foot in the new country and one foot in the old co untry, receiving subsidies all the way.
And what do you say about the Caucasian retiree's who sped off to foreign countries to retire? Traitors?
I think some effort should be made to interview them and find out why. We may also think about revocation of citizenship so that they can't just easily move back here when they are really tottering, don't have much money to spend but have a large draw on modern health systems. Would these "Caucasian retirees" enjoy being consigned to Aruba's health system for their last illnesses?
Getting back to the OP's question, is it shameful to not be patriotic?
I say it might not be shameful but it's nothing to be proud of either. If patriotism is sacrificing for your countrymen it can't be shameful not to do it just because so few people do. However, people who don't sacrifice for others are not worthy of much praise either. At the very least, if they can't bring themselves to sacrifice for others, they should show respect for those who do.
If people think tub-thumping and chest-pounding is patriotism then not being patriotic is in no way shameful. It's one thing to be proud of your country but quite another to be boastful.
America's flaws, past and present, are minor compared to those of most powerful countries. England, France, Germany, Japan, Russia, China...Rome, Carthage, Egypt all had them and many still have them. In no way are they a reason not to be proud of America. I don't know that any country has labored as hard to rights its wrongs than America has.
Personally, I look around America and I'm pretty proud of what I see. And grateful to the people whose sacrifice built and protected it.
Location: Huntersville/Charlotte, NC and Washington, DC
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jkiss
My feelings to this are if you aren't patriotic for this country then move to the country of your choice. I have a son who said he sees no reason to like America. Now granted he is 14 and still very young but I told him to pack his bags and feel free to move away when he is old enough. I honestly feel that way for anyone who isn't for our country.
This is one reason of why many aren't patriotic at all. The dismissive love it or leave it attitude does nothing to improve things in the US. A better attitude to take would be love America or try to change America. That attitude has far more potential to enrich America and it gives people reason to have pride in America.
This is one reason of why many aren't patriotic at all. The dismissive love it or leave it attitude does nothing to improve things in the US. A better attitude to take would be love America or try to change America. That attitude has far more potential to enrich America and it gives people reason to have pride in America.
That's right. While we may completely disagree on what way the country should be changed, the real patriotism is in trying to change the things one perceives as wrong. Not leaving somewhere else and letting others to fix the mess.
Why does patriotism end at a nation's borders? Am I to have some special sense of caring for all those who live in Brownsville but none for those who live in Matamoros instead? This is the absurdity of a narrow "Al Bundy" sort of patriotism.
Why does patriotism end at a nation's borders? Am I to have some special sense of caring for all those who live in Brownsville but none for those who live in Matamoros instead? This is the absurdity of a narrow "Al Bundy" sort of patriotism.
Compassion and patriotism are not the same thing. Most people feel like they should put their family first before others and their nation first before others but that does not mean they are not willing to go out of their way to help other families, communities and countries in need.
Compassion and patriotism are not the same thing. Most people feel like they should put their family first before others and their nation first before others but that does not mean they are not willing to go out of their way to help other families, communities and countries in need.
And the question again was why I should not care in the same way about people living in Matamoros as people living in Brownsville? Is there an actual reason not to, or is this all about some secret-handshake value system based on tribalism and other primitive sorts of emotionalism? As is, it seems the patriotism that people are endorsing is similar to lifelong badge-driven bonds of fealty to one's former fraternity brothers and sorority sisters. Is having once spent money on the same ring that you did of any actual import in the world? Should that really be worth anything in and of itself? Or is it the case that people are just people and are deserving of equal caring and respect on that basis alone?
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