Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Well? Not always. I have the death certificate of a third cousin from 1939, who died at the age of two. When he was born he was sexless. It was called agenesis of external genitalia. Apparently there's enough going on to know what should have developed, but didn't form.
I think intersex conditions usually are undiagnosed. I believe that some transgender people are born intersex.
Also, I think that the two main reasons for disgust are visceral: the chopping off of body parts and potentially being 'duped' by a sex partner (including any romantic mingling before it).
Wanting to change gender is a mental illness. It should be illegal for doctors to perform operations to change gender. With that said i'm not disgusted or have any personal problems with it because it does not affect me. But let's not beat around the bush it is a mental illness.
Because certain people feel a need to mind everyone else's business and use their bigotry to change society for the worse. It is no different than the "religious" people trying to use their holy texts to justify hatred and pretend that "the government is evil" - while they then turn around and want to use the government to monitor the bedrooms, temples, etc. The rest are just nutty and ignorant, believing in everything from "a gay conspiracy to make people gay" to "it's the same as molesting people" or some lunacy.
People should learn to mind their own business. If somebody is transgender, so what? Seriously, who the heck cares, and what difference does it make? Normal people don't wander around all day wondering if the women around them are "womanly enough" or if the men are "manly enough." Normal people shouldn't be worrying if the "guy one stall over was really born a woman?!"
Come on - it's the same lunacy as with hating gays, but since that's not socially acceptable anymore in the more civilized parts of the world, the bigots just move on to the next easy target because of their own sexual hang-ups, obsessive need to mind other people's business, and warped religious views. Grow the heck up.
Because certain people feel a need to mind everyone else's business and use their bigotry to change society for the worse. It is no different than the "religious" people trying to use their holy texts to justify hatred and pretend that "the government is evil" - while they then turn around and want to use the government to monitor the bedrooms, temples, etc. The rest are just nutty and ignorant, believing in everything from "a gay conspiracy to make people gay" to "it's the same as molesting people" or some lunacy.
People should learn to mind their own business. If somebody is transgender, so what? Seriously, who the heck cares, and what difference does it make? Normal people don't wander around all day wondering if the women around them are "womanly enough" or if the men are "manly enough." Normal people shouldn't be worrying if the "guy one stall over was really born a woman?!"
Come on - it's the same lunacy as with hating gays, but since that's not socially acceptable anymore in the more civilized parts of the world, the bigots just move on to the next easy target because of their own sexual hang-ups, obsessive need to mind other people's business, and warped religious views. Grow the heck up.
No, it's not bigotry. It's science. Of course there is contradicting research, but at the end of the day it's not bigotry and to say it is is an act of bullying.
The decisions we make reflect the culture we live in. Do we really want to promote transgender surgeries and then find out later that it's a serious mental disorder and mutilation only makes it worse? That would be cruel.
Probably the same "rights" that get trumped when the majority isn't allowed to publicly assault, humiliate, or otherwise attack a minority. The same lunacy you see when people start mouthing off about how "political correctness has ruined society" when what they really mean is that they can't call "those people" their favorite slurs anymore in public without being called out on their bigoted idiocy.
Nobody can offer any proof that transgender people are harming anyone, just as they can't offer any proof that "political correctness," gays, or any of the other hated minorities are "destroying society." It's all just cowardly ignorance and small-minded malice hiding behind countless excuses.
So rather than interpreting lab tests, diagnosing symptoms, making conclusions, and prescribing treatment based on penis=male and vagina=female, medical practitioners should make these interpretations and decisions based on how the patient "identifies"???
That is what you are saying if "feelings" trump biology. Or perhaps medical professionals can stick with born with a penis=male and born with a vagina=female, you know, for the sake of safe and effective healthcare, but everyone else should go along with the new definitions you are pushing???
I'm not obsessed with this, as you like to accuse. But when I came across this thread, I joined in, same as you. I'm retired now, but if I were still working, I would continue to do my job within the parameters of traditional, biological definitions of male and female. To do otherwise would be reckless!
Yet you claim I speak out of ignorance.
(And once again, for clarification, I absolutely acknowledge the reality of a TINY percent of people who are born with ambiguous genitalia or chromosomal abnormalities, who are truly not specifically male or female. But those medical conditions are completely different from the issue of "transgenderism.")
Quote:
Originally Posted by mishigas73
No.
Physical biology is physical biology. Gender is not defined by physical biology.
I'm not "pushing" anything.
I'm merely accepting the idea that people have different experiences about their gender than I do.
From a purely physical perspective, of course.
Again, gender is not defined by physical biology.
Ok, so at least you see where I'm coming from, that someone "identifying as female" does not, in the literal, true, biological definition of the word, make him a woman. At least we agree on that!
So I think you are saying female does not necessarily mean woman. Is that what you're saying? But on medical forms, male and female are the terms for men and women, respectively. This is where your statement that "gender is not defined by physical biology" makes no sense to me.
And it brings me back to what I touched on in my first reply in this thread (post 3, I think). I absolutely acknowledge that there are feminine men, masculine women, and everything in between. Anyone can dress however, do whatever, put on makeup, jewelry, play football, go hunting, wear overalls and flannel shirts, race hot rods, grow roses----WHATEVER he or she prefers, despite how "traditional gender roles" have been lived out. But I don't understand why the traditional male=man=has a penis and female=woman=has a uterus & vagina (with rare medical exceptions) should change. Can you explain that? How is a transgender MtoF different from a feminine man who likes to wear and do "girlie things"?
No, it's not. It's science. Of course there is contradicting research, but at the end of the day it's not bigotry and to say it is is a act of bullying.
At the end of the day the decisions promote the culture we live in. Do we really want to promote transgender surgeries and then find out later that it's just a serious mental disorder and surgery only makes it worse? That would be cruel.
This isn't about "promoting surgeries" - it is about treating other human beings decently, even if they are different in a way you don't understand.
There's no shortage of bigots who hate transgender people and try to ostracize or outright harm them while claiming everything from bad science to religion as an excuse. What science says years from now about their physical or mental well-being is utterly irrelevant to the basic fact that they aren't harming anyone and it is disgusting to attack and condemn them. Condemning them because "years later, science may say there was a better way to help them" is illogical on every level. It makes about as much sense as hanging smokers from trees until they are dead because you "don't believe in addiction" or some nuttiness.
The world would be a far better place if people just minded their own business, particularly about things - like nearly everything dealing with other people's sexuality - that don't concern them. If you're not romantically involved with him or her, it shouldn't make a difference to you what their gender / sex / orientation / whatever is.
Nobody can offer any proof that transgender people are harming anyone, just as they can't offer any proof that "political correctness," gays, or any of the other hated minorities are "destroying society." It's all just cowardly ignorance and small-minded malice hiding behind countless excuses.
Uh, people in general don't hate gays or any minority for that matter. Some people have read the research and have decided classify transgenderism as a mental disorder, that's all. Doesn't mean they hate them. If you don't understand that then YOU are the small minded one. YOU are the bigot. Sorry if that makes you uncomfortable but it's true
My problem is the whole directional-shift that transgenderism has taken. I believe transgenderism is a disordered thought-process, that needs to be treated as a mental-health issue.
The reason is because the rights of a very small minority trumps the rights of a majority.
No, no, no, no, no, no. Rights are not pies. With a pie, if I give Marge a large piece, you will get a small piece. But rights? Someone else getting rights do not diminish your rights. Your rights are still your rights.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
