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And yet Americans do exactly that when they are the expats. I lived in Thailand for a couple of years and rarely met an American expat who wasn't always telling Thai people how they should run THEIR country. Don't expect more from foreigners here than you expect from Americans "over there".
There aren't enough American or other Western expats to make much of a difference. Very different story with Eastern immigrants here.
Location: New Albany, Indiana (Greater Louisville)
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[quote=ohio_peasant;49024027
The irony, therefore, is that the preponderance of modern immigrants is turning America into a more socially-conservative country, much along the lines of what’s being advocated by the “native” conservative religious-Right. Folks from the villages of El Salvador, Bangladesh, Tunisia or Turkey (just to give some random examples) are in terms of social-policy the natural allies of nth-generation American conservatives. Odd, isn’t it, how this latter group spurns their natural allies?![/QUOTE]
This is something I find very ironic with the modern debate about immigration. Liberals are pushing for more and more immigrants who bring traditional views of gender, homosexuality, etc with them. These people have views that more align with the Religious Right yet the RR generally opposes any non White immigration. Only a few liberals like Bill Maher seem to get it and basically no Right Wingers I pay attention to. I would add that many African Americans are loyal Democrat voters yet mostly vote against legal gay marriage. CA was never able to pass legal gay marriage by popular vote despite being a deep blue state because most non White Democrats didn't support it.
There aren't enough American or other Western expats to make much of a difference. Very different story with Eastern immigrants here.
Stop and think about what you just wrote. Your response is based on whether there are sufficient numbers of expats in two different to make a difference, rather than on whether or not expats are trying to make a difference. It seems to me there's a principle involved here, and that principle is whether or not immigrants experience "dehumanization" and other negative experiences when they become expats, and in this particular part of the thread, whether they want to live in their new country as they did in the former country.
Also, if lots of European countries can handle multilingualism, why shouldn't we be able to do likewise?
The multilingualism of Europe is based upon ethnic backgrounds that got negotiated into post-war artificial country boundaries. It is stable, the result of hundreds of years of people's families and roots. People know what language they were born into, and they stay where they were born. It's not the result of a bunch of, say, French people who decide to move to Russia, and then demand the Russians start having elections and schools and social services in French!
In my school district, there are 72 different languages. We have one of the largest Tibetan populations in the US. So who decides what languages are goign to be spoken in which agencies? The language group with the most speakers? The most money? the best politically connected? It's a nightmare. I read an article that the English/Mandarin school teachers in San Fransisco were making $125K a year. That's crazy. Are you going to be paying that much for all of the 72 languages in our school district?
Our school district had to pay attorneys to defend itself against a law suit from a man who sued because the local neighborhood school did not have a native-born Thai teaher for his kid. The school district did have Thai speakers, but it was not in the school closest to him. I didn't see a follow-up article in the paper about how it turned out, but the very fact that he felt he could sue (probably with a taxpayer funded attorney) is a problem with not having an official language. It's just a huge waste of time.
The multilingualism of Europe is based upon ethnic backgrounds that got negotiated into post-war artificial country boundaries. It is stable, the result of hundreds of years of people's families and roots. People know what language they were born into, and they stay where they were born. It's not the result of a bunch of, say, French people who decide to move to Russia, and then demand the Russians start having elections and schools and social services in French!
In my school district, there are 72 different languages. We have one of the largest Tibetan populations in the US. So who decides what languages are goign to be spoken in which agencies? The language group with the most speakers? The most money? the best politically connected? It's a nightmare. I read an article that the English/Mandarin school teachers in San Fransisco were making $125K a year. That's crazy. Are you going to be paying that much for all of the 72 languages in our school district?
Our school district had to pay attorneys to defend itself against a law suit from a man who sued because the local neighborhood school did not have a native-born Thai teaher for his kid. The school district did have Thai speakers, but it was not in the school closest to him. I didn't see a follow-up article in the paper about how it turned out, but the very fact that he felt he could sue (probably with a taxpayer funded attorney) is a problem with not having an official language. It's just a huge waste of time.
Excellent points and post. I think that Sacramento and/or Washington should have to reimburse districts for this politically correct foolishness. Europe by and large segregates its immigrants. We don't. If they come here, learn our language.
What would policy look like if we treated immigrants as fully human?
First, do you understand the difference between ILLEGAL ALIEN, and legal immigrant? Also, have you examined other countries' immigration polices? Australia, Canada, France, Mexico, or just about any other country? How strict are their immigration policies?
1. Some immigrants want to take jobs, and others want to create jobs, or be self-employed. If concern over the job market were the real reason for all the red tape that immigrants face on education and jobs, then those that want to be self-employed would not be treated the same way or with so much red tape and bureaucratic paperwork and complex rules. Yet, they have to put up with it too. Thus the jobs argument appears to be a red herring and the real issue is not jobs, but xenophobia.
2. The travel ban and other restrictions cause immigrants to be inconvenienced in a major way. If citizens were treated like this, there would be enormous outcry. But when it's immigrants, it is somehow acceptable to do this.
3. It is socially acceptable to stereotype immigrants in ways that would be considered hate speech if applied to citizens. For example, it is acceptable to say that immigrants want to damage the country, or to speak as though they do without saying it explicitly. If things like this were said about citizens, it would be considered bigotry. Yet there is no scientific evidence that immigrants are more susceptible to violent actions than citizens.
4. The citizenship test requires a high level of knowledge about civics that many Americans do not possess. This is reminiscent of the literacy tests from several decades ago that were used to deny African-Americans the ability to vote.
5. If someone flees domestic violence or gang violence in America, many social programs are available for them, even when it inconveniences others or costs them money to pay for. But when people flee even worse conditions overseas, we don't accept even the slightest and most trivial inconvenience to allow them to escape such conditions.
6. Denying immigrants jobs is discrimination on the basis of national origin. Yet not only is it legal, but it is legally required. When someone says that discrimination based on national origin is prohibited, they are dehumanizing immigrants by speaking as though they aren't even people.
Are you talking ILLEGAL immigration? When the word ILLEGAL is not included that totally changes the argument.
First, do you understand the difference between ILLEGAL ALIEN, and legal immigrant? Also, have you examined other countries' immigration polices? Australia, Canada, France, Mexico, or just about any other country? How strict are their immigration policies?
It is amazing on how many people do NOT understand the difference between ILLEGAL ALIEN and a LEGAL IMMIGRANT. First lets define an immigrant, an immigrant is a person who has APPLIED for residence in another country. A legal immigrant is a person who has been ACCEPTED by the countries government to reside in the country as a resident. As a resident they are allowed to work, attend school or start their own business, they are protect by the laws of the country in which they reside. With the United States they are entitled to apply for citizenship.
An ILLEGAL ALIEN is a person who has usurp the laws of the country and have taken up residency illegally. They are not entitled to any privileges that are reserved for citizens. As with the United States they do not have equal protection under the laws of the country.
The 14th amendment is clear on this: All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the state wherein they reside. No state shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any state deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the laws.
First, do you understand the difference between ILLEGAL ALIEN, and legal immigrant? Also, have you examined other countries' immigration polices? Australia, Canada, France, Mexico, or just about any other country? How strict are their immigration policies?
These other countries have no tradition of immigration, unlike us.
Were a nation of immigrants, get over it...
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