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Old 07-25-2017, 03:05 PM
 
20,955 posts, read 8,674,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post

Even your quoted article only says that about half of the people who tried marijuana never graduated to harder drugs ... but, conveniently ignores the other half. Sorry, I'm not buying the glib conclusions drawn by this article.
Well, since you are in the field, certainly you "buy" the fact that a large (1/2) of opiate overdoses are found with popular and legal other drugs in their system.....like the "mothers little helpers" described in the Rolling Stones songs. That is in addition to any booze..which, of course, is deadly in combo with either or both of these.

Yet - talk to the average American and you will find they likely either drink or take tranquilizers.

So - are you blaming our medical system, the pharma industry, alcohol manufacturers, etc.?

Or, is is a deeper spiritual sickness where they might be sniffing glue or carbona or something else if not for the general prevalence of "safer" substances?

I'm more in agreement with the 2nd. Our country is sick and that is expressed in the POTUS, Congress, Big Business (not all, but some), Big Pharma, War, Racism and much more.

You can't fix the patient without treating the causation...and the odds of Americans (as a whole) instantly becoming decent and moral people are about zero.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:08 PM
 
8,011 posts, read 8,210,154 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
No, it looks like you are concluding from a single article - that marijuana doesn't lead to hard drug usage. Now, you conclude that the entire 'gateway drug' issue is "nonsense." -- What if you are wrong?

Having spent over 30-years in 'street ministry', I've dealt firsthand with hundreds (if not thousands) of people whose lives had been destroyed by drugs. By their own stories, the vast majority of these people started-out with alcohol and a little pot -- and then moved-on to harder drugs.

Even your quoted article only says that about half of the people who tried marijuana never graduated to harder drugs ... but, conveniently ignores the other half. Sorry, I'm not buying the glib conclusions drawn by this article.
And what was the environment these folks lived in? I bet is was one where hard drug use was rampant. I'm pretty sure these folks would have fallen pray to drugs whether or not they even looked at a Marijuana leaf. Correlation does not equal causation.

And by the way if I'm ignoring the half who started using the hard stuff after using marijuana why are you ignoring the half that didn't? If your hypothesis was true it would be more like 80% former and 20% latter.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:09 PM
 
3,532 posts, read 3,023,028 times
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There's still the issue of how can the addict pay for the drugs?
An occasional user of hard drugs and a regular user of pot can usually hold a job but for the user who can't is still going to be faced with the same problem whether drugs are legal or not.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:10 PM
NCN
 
Location: NC/SC Border Patrol
21,663 posts, read 25,634,295 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marleinie View Post
Beyond upsetting big pharma, having racist excuses to imprison/exploit minorities, lining the pockets of the elite and wasting trillions of course.

Of all the wars in human history, has there ever been a war as pointless for the common person as the war on drugs? What would it mean if it were to truly end and no one were jailed/imrpisoned for any drugs and the likes of the DEA and the ATF were completely disbanded?
Crime would skyrocket and more people would die from an overdose.
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Old 07-25-2017, 03:59 PM
 
50,795 posts, read 36,501,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jghorton View Post
No, it looks like you are concluding from a single article - that marijuana doesn't lead to hard drug usage. Now, you conclude that the entire 'gateway drug' issue is "nonsense." -- What if you are wrong?

Having spent over 30-years in 'street ministry', I've dealt firsthand with hundreds (if not thousands) of people whose lives had been destroyed by drugs. By their own stories, the vast majority of these people started-out with alcohol and a little pot -- and then moved-on to harder drugs.

Even your quoted article only says that about half of the people who tried marijuana never graduated to harder drugs ... but, conveniently ignores the other half. Sorry, I'm not buying the glib conclusions drawn by this article.
So in other words, having it illegal did squat to keep them from getting drugs....I would think you of all people would be a proponent of treatment rather than jail for drug users. Is the current system of having drugs be the domain of the criminal justice system helping the people you worked with?
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:00 PM
 
50,795 posts, read 36,501,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Crime would skyrocket and more people would die from an overdose.
Why would crime skyrocket?? Seems like it would be the opposite by putting drug dealers out of business
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:05 PM
 
Location: Dessert
10,897 posts, read 7,393,957 times
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more police for other crimes
fewer convicts filling prisons
cheaper drug prices

I read that 60% of arrests here in Hawaii are for drug crimes. That's a lot of police time. Of course, the Feds send money to finance the war, so things might not be as rosy as could be.
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:05 PM
 
50,795 posts, read 36,501,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hellob View Post
There's still the issue of how can the addict pay for the drugs?
An occasional user of hard drugs and a regular user of pot can usually hold a job but for the user who can't is still going to be faced with the same problem whether drugs are legal or not.
Yes, that's why they want to take the money currently spent on criminal prosecutions and put it towards drug treatment instead. When prohibition was repealed I don't think one of the concerns was "but how are alcoholics going to pay for their booze?" It is an any different occasional drinker has no problem holding a job but the hard-core alcoholic will not be able to hold one. Should the laws be created around the concerns of that person or the many more people who use it responsibly?

Your question seems to imply that legalization is going to create more addicts, but I don't see that correlation. Heroin has always been illegal in modern times yet addiction rates are higher than they've ever been.
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Old 07-25-2017, 04:55 PM
 
Location: Removing a snake out of the neighbor's washing machine
3,095 posts, read 2,041,231 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCN View Post
Crime would skyrocket and more people would die from an overdose.

See post #36
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Old 07-25-2017, 09:12 PM
 
Location: So. Calif
1,122 posts, read 962,275 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by craigiri View Post
Do you have something against unregulated capitalism? Is the Lemonade stand down your block registered, tested, approved and licensed? Did they pay taxes?

To answer your question - YES, I believe our racist and corrupt government...as well as our selfish and unhappy populace, are responsible for our drug problem.

To start, you can explain how Afghanistan went from almost ZERO Opium production to record harvests...protected by American forces.

Then you can explain how the CIA was deeply involved in drug running and right wing death squads in central america.

After that, read the two most important books about meth and heroin (methland and dreamland) and you will see how most all of it started HERE with "capitalism". Example:

1. Meth - was an attempt to deal with the fallout from wages being cut in 1/2 or further in the midwest during the Reagan years (the big ag producers sold to bigger corporations). Workers then had to work 2 or 3 jobs, something meth helped with. It was homemade - not imported. Only AFTER everyone was using it did some Mexicans (working those low wage jobs) decide to capitalize on the demand.

2. Heroin - thanks to Big Pharma (Perdue Pharma) and thousands of lying sales reps, PR men and doctors....and, of course, unregulated capitalism, 4 to 6 million Americans were fed "legal" opiates and addicted. But - due to the same capitalism (supply and demand) the pills got very expensive on the street as the pill mills were shut down. Guess what? Some poverty stricken Mexicans saw an opportunity for a lemonade stand....

Of course, this is a summary. But the answer, again, is YES. Americans and our government are responsible through policies, forbidden fruit (fundamentalist views), etc.
Sorry I went off subject a bit -

The Opioid Crisis is questionable... Yes it is happening BUT not from people like myself and the countless others who are in serious pain who take their medication as prescribed. These drug dealers are mixing an Elephant Tranquilizer (carfentanil) in with the heroin they are selling to these addicts in Ohio and all over the USA. They end up overdosing because it is so strong. I see the print media is talking about this more which is good.

They have created this Opioid crisis because they do not want to pay for the pain medication and have created hysteria. I was going to go off my pain medication until my Internist had me go see this pain mgmt doc. Also the DEA was bugging her constantly w/ alerts. She was one of those physicians that worked hard to be a physician and was not about to lose her license. Physicians are scared and want to help their patients but are under so much stress because of this OPIOID hysteria. This is what they have done especially the media including Fox as well as others who have been talking about it.

I have always been a HUGE fan of Tucker Carlson but got so angry because he was not listening to people like myself. I tried contacting him but they are not interested in hearing the stories like mine and countless others I have been on a pain patch (opioid) for 10 yrs. I am not dead - I do not abuse and I respect my physicians . I do not mix drugs like Prince, Heath Ledger and the rest of them who have died. See, you do not hear about folks like us. Sad what is happening. We just want quality of life - free of pain. RSD is very painfull indeed. We are paying the price because of people who abuse.

Just wanted to add- Good pain mgmt doctors with ethics/integrity usually have to weed through the people who come to see them as they are sniffing around for more drugs. They do a test on them (Urine) and if it is dirty they are out of there. Those folks belong in rehab if they will go but we know they usually won't.

My friends husband works for Perdue and it's highly unfair to blame them. I thank them for giving me some quality of life - where I can do a little gardening and make candles as a hobby when I feel up to it Again, I have been on an opioid they give to chronic pain patients as well as cancer patients for 10 long years.. I ask you...do I look like a druggie? I will be happy to give anyone who wants it my blog url. I will challenge anyone.
I am 64 yrs old and would I love to be healthy? Darn right but this is my life. There is no cure but it is manageable.

McGILL Pain Index and CRPS or RSD - American RSDHope CRPS is just another word for RSD. Read this with regards to pain and perhaps you will understand where I am coming from and I why I am so passionate.

It was my pain mgmt doctor who spent over 30 minutes with my husband and I explaining what is really going on. There are many doctors who care about their practice as well as their patients. On the flip side there are physicians who prescribe pain meds to people out of state. People they have never seen. Those are the doctors that need to lose their license. Pain medication is not CANDY it's suppose to be taken as prescribed and often it is not. I had to speak up because it's so easy to blame others for the addiction issue with medications but it also comes down to personal responsibility. Street drugs are a hole different ballgame. Thank you!
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