Confederate Symbolism; Time to Stop Nursing Grievances and Relitigating Past (legal, Kennedy)
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But why would anyone in Charlottesville erect a statue in 1924 of a traitor to the United States and a loser of a rebellion that ended 60 years earlier? Why would that need to be commemorated?
The majority of these confederate monuments and statues were built around two respective periods.
1900-1925 which was ironically the Antebellum south period and the establishment of Jim Crow laws
and the 1950's and 60's during the Civil rights movement.
I really don't have strong feelings for or against these monuments so I'm not going to lose sleep if they get tore down or not. That also means that I don't believe tearing them down eradicates history as some of these knee jerk reactions suggests.
Yeah much like the thousands of empty spaces across the nation so what's the point?
Agreed.
You know, when I was a principal in Virginia, one day a Black student (female) was sent to my office because she was refusing to do an assignment in history class -- to write a 2-3 page essay about "The American President I Most Admire". The student told me that she didn't admire White American presidents; that she admired the kings and queens of Africa. So I said, "Okay, tell me about one." "Whaddya mean?" "Tell me about one of the Black kings or queens of Africa that you admire." She couldn't think of one. In other words, she just didn't want to do the assignment.
This is not unlike the guys who were protesting in Charlottesville in support of Nazis or the stormfronters. Most of them (there were exceptions, of course) don't know shyte about the generals of the Civil War, or Jefferson Davis, or much of anything else about that conflict. And I'm not just guessing that's true. I lived in Virginia for most of my adult life and got into some conversations about the general topic with those who supposedly had pride about the Confederate history of the state. I'd always ask questions like "Which Confederate general do you most admire?" They'd usually say either Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson. And then I'd ask, "What, specifically, do you admire about them?" They could never answer. "How many times have you visited the Civil War battlefields down around Fredericksburg?" We only lived less than an hour's drive from there. Almost all never had. And so on.
This topic has NOTHING to do with those statues, which virtually none of those alt-right protestors would even stop and glance at if they walked right past them. This has nothing to do with the Civil War -- which most of them are too uneducated to discuss. What it really has to do with is the culture wars in general.
You know, when I was a principal in Virginia, one day a Black student (female) was sent to my office because she was refusing to do an assignment in history class -- to write a 2-3 page essay about "The American President I Most Admire". The student told me that she didn't admire White American presidents; that she admired the kings and queens of Africa. So I said, "Okay, tell me about one." "Whaddya mean?" "Tell me about one of the Black kings or queens of Africa that you admire." She couldn't think of one. In other words, she just didn't want to do the assignment.
This is not unlike the guys who were protesting in Charlottesville in support of Nazis or the stormfronters. Most of them (there were exceptions, of course) don't know shyte about the generals of the Civil War, or Jefferson Davis, or much of anything else about that conflict. And I'm not just guessing that's true. I lived in Virginia for most of my adult life and got into some conversations about the general topic with those who supposedly had pride about the Confederate history of the state. I'd always ask questions like "Which Confederate general do you most admire?" They'd usually say either Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson. And then I'd ask, "What, specifically, do you admire about them?" They could never answer. "How many times have you visited the Civil War battlefields down around Fredericksburg?" We only lived less than an hour's drive from there. Almost all never had. And so on.
This topic has NOTHING to do with those statues, which virtually none of those alt-right protestors would even stop and glance at if they walked right past them. This has nothing to do with the Civil War -- which most of them are too uneducated to discuss. What it really has to do with is the culture wars in general.
I agree and this was the point I was trying to make in my initial post (#4). But I don't think that ignorance is purely the domain of the alt-right. I think it is shared across the various protagonists. What really concerns me is the creeping authoritarianism and intolerance as demonstrated by the 'outing' - sometimes erroneous -, the attempts to get individuals fired for their views, the posting of home addresses online, etc. etc..
And the hypocrisy is crushing; "we respect the right to free speech but we will deny a platform". You are entitled to demonstrate but we will try to get you fired. We will post your home address so that people who agree with us can harass your family or worse.
Whatever happened to democratic discourse and confidence in the strength of ideas?
I agree and this was the point I was trying to make in my initial post (#4). But I don't think that ignorance is purely the domain of the alt-right. I think it is shared across the various protagonists. What really concerns me is the creeping authoritarianism and intolerance as demonstrated by the 'outing' - sometimes erroneous -, the attempts to get individuals fired for their views, the posting of home addresses online, etc. etc..
And the hypocrisy is crushing; "we respect the right to free speech but we will deny a platform". You are entitled to demonstrate but we will try to get you fired. We will post your home address so that people who agree with us can harass your family or worse.
Whatever happened to democratic discourse and confidence in the strength of ideas?
Yes. This bothers me a lot.
There are causes that I agree with. There are causes that I vehemently disagree with. My opinions don't matter, though. This is a free country, and people should be able to assemble peacefully and protest whatever they want to protest.
Whatever happened to democratic discourse and confidence in the strength of ideas?
Brawndo. It's got electrolytes.
The rich have manipulated the poorly educated masses to vote against their self-interest. It's tough to have a discourse with someone who is Full Bernie or who watches Fox News all day. All political positions have to be at one extreme or the other with no compromise. That benefits rich people.
But why would anyone in Charlottesville erect a statue in 1924 of a traitor to the United States and a loser of a rebellion that ended 60 years earlier? Why would that need to be commemorated?
Why a need to relitigate a statue placement from 1924? Is that statue really holding anyone back from work, achievement and not impregnating people who should be in school?
You know, when I was a principal in Virginia, one day a Black student (female) was sent to my office because she was refusing to do an assignment in history class -- to write a 2-3 page essay about "The American President I Most Admire". The student told me that she didn't admire White American presidents; that she admired the kings and queens of Africa. So I said, "Okay, tell me about one." "Whaddya mean?" "Tell me about one of the Black kings or queens of Africa that you admire." She couldn't think of one. In other words, she just didn't want to do the assignment.
This is not unlike the guys who were protesting in Charlottesville in support of Nazis or the stormfronters. Most of them (there were exceptions, of course) don't know shyte about the generals of the Civil War, or Jefferson Davis, or much of anything else about that conflict. And I'm not just guessing that's true. I lived in Virginia for most of my adult life and got into some conversations about the general topic with those who supposedly had pride about the Confederate history of the state. I'd always ask questions like "Which Confederate general do you most admire?" They'd usually say either Robert E. Lee or Stonewall Jackson. And then I'd ask, "What, specifically, do you admire about them?" They could never answer. "How many times have you visited the Civil War battlefields down around Fredericksburg?" We only lived less than an hour's drive from there. Almost all never had. And so on.
This topic has NOTHING to do with those statues, which virtually none of those alt-right protestors would even stop and glance at if they walked right past them. This has nothing to do with the Civil War -- which most of them are too uneducated to discuss. What it really has to do with is the culture wars in general.
Even though you and I often disagree, I agree with all but the last paragraph of your post here. I think it is quite true that agitators often know little about their grievances or proposed remedies.
The majority of these confederate monuments and statues were built around two respective periods.
1900-1925 which was ironically the Antebellum south period and the establishment of Jim Crow laws
and the 1950's and 60's during the Civil rights movement.
I really don't have strong feelings for or against these monuments so I'm not going to lose sleep if they get tore down or not. That also means that I don't believe tearing them down eradicates history as some of these knee jerk reactions suggests.
You know this, and I know this, so it was more of a rhetorical question. Some people look at these statues as history, but it's so bizarre that they don't see the real historical impact. What country erects public statues to traitors long after the battle is fought? The subtext there is huge.
We don't expect there to be statues of Saddam in Iraq or Stalin in Russia anymore, so why a statue to Lee?
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