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It's the old switcheroo...
Say one thing, but mean another.
OMIT anthropogenic from "climate change," while implying it. Then denounce all those who are skeptical as "deniers."
And when the skeptics admit climate does change, then smugly insert "anthropogenic" back into the term, and blame CO2, methane, greenhouse gases, etc, etc.
However, there is ONE ITTY BITTY POINT.
● Earth max : (134.33 F)
● Space station max : (250 F)
● Lunar surface max : (242.33 F)
Zero atmosphere = higher maximum temperature
How does a “heat trapping”atmosphere stay colder?
And if heat was being 'trapped,' why hasn't the maximum temperature gone up to a new record level?
Is the “Greenhouse effect” like a refrigerator “trapping heat”?
There is no "heating up" or trapping of heat by the atmosphere when it is COOLING the planet. And since there is no conduction nor convection of heat in a vacuum, that leaves RADIATION. The atmosphere is radiating / reflecting back energy, that COOLS the planet.
Facts in support - - -
Earth Albedo : 0.3
Moon Albedo : 0.11
Coincidentally, the greenhouse gases have a higher emissivity that means they COOL the planet even more. And the #1 greenhouse gas is water vapor, which has a far greater effect than trace gases like CO2 or methane.. . .
SO WHY THE FUSS?
Simple answer : wealth and power.
Those who see a great opportunity in supporting nonsense expect to get rich and powerful.
WHY BE SKEPTICAL?
The proponents of AGCC / AGW are con men.
If "the money" really believed that oceans would rise, they'd be selling off beachfront property or surrounding it with levees and dikes. Mountain retreats would be selling like hotcakes. Governments would be shifting subsidy from the automobile / petroleum / highway hegemony, to electric traction rail - the most efficient form of land transport. All housing would be built with superinsulation, thus minimizing the consumption of resources to maintain comfort. And to minimize the cost from natural disasters, construct disaster resistant resilient structures and homes, as a rule, not an exception.
. . .
BUT THEY ARE NOT.
They want to "tax air" and "sequester carbon" as if that would stop the change or deal with the consequences.
Like Jetgraphics posted in post 31, the number one cause of greenhouse gas is water vapor, not there isn't much we can due about that, it's just normal on a planet with so much water.
The climate is changing, it has been changing for the last 11,500 years and it will continue for about the next 25,000 years. Ice ages last much longer than interglacial warming periods, so the natural state of the Earth is ice sheets, which after this warming period is over the Northern Hemisphere will be covered with ice once again. It's called a climate cycle, however, like most things in nature, this happens on a scale that far exceed the human life span. We just get to see a tiny slice of the event, so like the intelligent humans we are, this must be our fault. We seem to have neither the hindsight nor the foresight to address what is really taking place. If we do not prepare for this event then we may as well go the way of the dodo. Preparing doesn't mean forcing the population into using renewable energy, it doesn't mean scaring the population into believing that humans caused this, preparing means to address this trend with tangible solutions, to inform the population to what is really taking place. Preparing is to inform the population that there is nothing that mankind can do to stop this event from taking place. So, in the long run, it doesn't matter how many solar panels you install, or how many wind turbines you put up, the warming is going to continue. We need to educate the population about the real problem and prepare our future generations for this up coming issue.
Lord Monckton lives!!! What a farce! Face it, folks -- climate change is real, man-made, and dangerous. It doesn't matter how much spurious nonsense is piled up by addle-pated deniers. The science ever more clearly shows that climate change is in fact real, man-made, and dangerous. Those are the cards that we have been dealt here.
Lord Monckton lives!!! What a farce! Face it, folks -- climate change is real, man-made, and dangerous. It doesn't matter how much spurious nonsense is piled up by addle-pated deniers. The science ever more clearly shows that climate change is in fact real, man-made, and dangerous. Those are the cards that we have been dealt here.
Agreed, Climate Change is real, however, the jury is still out on if it is man made, that is unless you can find CO2 producing factories that existed 11,000 years ago. That's right VendorDude, the Earth started warming some 11,500 years ago, and we are almost in the middle of the warming trend, there is still about 20,000 years to go. Is it dangerous, not really, yes, some people are going to have to relocate, but think of the bright side of this, plants are going to love this. So you can join in the futile attempt to stop this process, just as those humans did 150,000 years ago when the last warming trend started, but it only resulted in another ice age, just as this one will.
Agreed, Climate Change is real, however, the jury is still out on if it is man made, that is unless you can find CO2 producing factories that existed 11,000 years ago. That's right VendorDude, the Earth started warming some 11,500 years ago, and we are almost in the middle of the warming trend, there is still about 20,000 years to go. Is it dangerous, not really, yes, some people are going to have to relocate, but think of the bright side of this, plants are going to love this. So you can join in the futile attempt to stop this process, just as those humans did 150,000 years ago when the last warming trend started, but it only resulted in another ice age, just as this one will.
Bingo. The chap who posted the 8000 year graph needs to read up on the cycles...they are sure lot longer than that.
I'm talking geological ERA timescales, the planet is COLD right now. At this very moment we are 5-6C below the average. That's cold.
IF increasing temps manages to put a lid on global population growth, even better. There are millions of people living in places humans have got no business being, let alone in such large numbers. If you live in the desert, and complain about heat or water (or lack thereof) well then, can't help ya there. What can I say? Either you gotta find some irrigation techniques that work, or learn how to transport water and desalinate, don't complain about the temperature though - look where you are living...did you expect something else?
Also if you live basically at sea level...well thats on you too. Who told you that was a permanent solution? Anyone that watches the tides and waves can understand the peril of that. Don't settle 2-3 feet above mean high tide...thats just stupid. All these people in metro areas (like the San Francisco Bay Area) have ample reason to NOT do that kind of thing, because you can see the historical geological and anthropological evidence that the entire Bay was once all under water, and it wasn't that long ago - people were living here back then as well, because we have shell mounds way inland from the current water edge..how did that happen, eh? There's a shell mound in El Sobrante that is 95 feet above sea level. Indians were only here for the last 17-20K years to put them there...so you do the math.
I just read a piece in the WaPo about how emissions have increased last year, which means "much more" will have to be cut later in order to meet the arbitrary 2 C target.
What gets me that they seem to think that cutting emissions by such drastic measures would be a walk in the park, when it's nothing of the sort. We're talking about the price of gas being set at $8 to $10 a gallon, and the quadrupling of electric prices - not to mention the curtailment of most industry. In other words, we'd have to suffer through a colossal global depression for years on end just to meet this "goal" of keeping warming to 2 degrees or less.
Is this what they really want for us? To end our comfortable way of life to prevent something that may yet occur anyway?
This is why Americans won't elect people who propose "solutions" to climate change, since they know very well it would mean the end of the American dream and then some...
Is this what they really want for us? To end our comfortable way of life to prevent something that may yet occur anyway?
.
Who is "They"?
no one wants to end a comfortable way of life but mans use of 100 million barrels of fossil fuel per day has consequences on the environment,those science communities dedicated to the study of climate are ringing the alarm bells.
Agreed, Climate Change is real, however, the jury is still out on if it is man made, that is unless you can find CO2 producing factories that existed 11,000 years ago. That's right VendorDude, the Earth started warming some 11,500 years ago, and we are almost in the middle of the warming trend, there is still about 20,000 years to go. Is it dangerous, not really, yes, some people are going to have to relocate, but think of the bright side of this, plants are going to love this. So you can join in the futile attempt to stop this process, just as those humans did 150,000 years ago when the last warming trend started, but it only resulted in another ice age, just as this one will.
Yes, another misguided attempt to take refuge in a load of pointless banality. All these "cycles" that you cite are well known and understood and are taught to high school students. They don't even begin to explain the climate change crisis and in fact have little to do with it. The problem here is not history, but a MAJOR DEPARTURE from it. Each of the last three years for instance has been the warmest year on record. That's never happened before. Briefly put, there is no model at all that can explain the current climate situation that does not include a term for CO2. It can't be done. It's the extra CO2 that is the problem, and it is humans who are creating the extra CO2. People can recognize the obvious or not. They can decide to do something about it or not. But it will still be more than obvious.
Last edited by VendorDude; 11-13-2017 at 06:55 AM..
I never encountered anyone who said the climate was not changing. People kept calling out these "deniers" and I could not find any. What I did find is people who questioned the doomsayers (who turned out to be FOS). Anyone who flailed to wholeheartedly accept the trendy position was balled a "denier" even if they were merely questioning logical/scientific flaws in the popular analysis. A lot of people liked to make fun of the extremists by pointing out when we had an unusually cold winter or when it appeared things were actually getting colder. Those people were not denying anything, just poking fun at the extremists.
However I am not denying there may have been deniers. There are wacky people at the extremes of anything. Unfortunately for climate change caused by humans advocates, the wacky extremists on their side were very very loud, and, since none of their predictions have happened, make the entire movement look questionable.
I have not changed in that regard. I still poke fun at the extremists. I still refuse to believe the world is going to end three years ago or three years form now due to "global warming - climate change" If it is going to end in the next three years I am not foolish enough to think that I or any other human can do anything about it.
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