Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
If we're talking about "rational" based on statistics, statistically - nothing "needs to be done". School shootings are outliers, rarer than lightning strikes & "gun violence" with long guns is 3% of whatever number you want to call "gun violence". In a country of 300 million people, with more guns than people, the number of schoolchildren killed by guns in schools isn't statistically significant.
And the "solutions " proposed wouldn't have saved any of them. Regulations that wouldn't have affected any school shootings aren't rational regulations.. They're "feel good" regulations that only infringe on rights for no benefit.
Soooo- in light of the facts, who has the irrational fear?
Still you guys. Because you still believe that regulations equals an outright ban.
And you believe that regulations that wouldn't save anyone are "rational".
Murder is already illegal. Making it extra-extra illegal won't end murder.
If that is the case then why regulate anything? Why regulate drugs? Why put the legal age of alcohol consumption at 21? Why have laws against anything if people are still going to break them?
If that is the case then why regulate anything? Why regulate drugs? Why put the legal age of alcohol consumption at 21? Why have laws against anything if people are still going to break them?
Well, regulating drugs is peeing up a rope, IMHO, and it's backed by hundreds of years of failed drug laws. I don't know about you, but when I was under 21, I drank waaaay more than I do now & the law wasn't a deterrent and wasn't effective.
To be effective, regulation needs popular support, not 51% of a gerrymandered congress that has control only until the next election. We tried banning alcohol in this country, and just because a slim majority of the population had the votes didn't make the laws effective. You're *never* getting popular support for gun bans in the United States, the minority will always be large enough to render compliance ineffective. You can make the large minority into instant felons with the stroke of a pen, but you're not going to get compliance, you're going to sow discord and distrust & make government into more of a joke than it is already.
Well, regulating drugs is peeing up a rope, IMHO, and it's backed by hundreds of years of failed drug laws. I don't know about you, but when I was under 21, I drank waaaay more than I do now & the law wasn't a deterrent and wasn't effective.
To be effective, regulation needs popular support, not 51% of a gerrymandered congress that has control only until the next election. We tried banning alcohol in this country, and just because a slim majority of the population had the votes didn't make the laws effective. You're *never* getting popular support for gun bans in the United States, the minority will always be large enough to render compliance ineffective. You can make the large minority into instant felons with the stroke of a pen, but you're not going to get compliance, you're going to sow discord and distrust & make government into more of a joke than it is already.
I know that's why it is not a gun ban FOR THE MILLIONTH TIME.
Just like not selling alcohol on Sunday doesn't mean alcohol is banned.
Do you know that even in states with strict gun laws you can still own a fire arm? It seems like a lot of you don't.
I've never said all guns should be banned but really unless you're hunter why have an AR-15?
Nearly all of them, if you go by the speeches and the slogans on the sign. They just aren't sure what they want to ban.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENN1eeyuLPY
Maybe they only want to ban a subset of firearms now, but I'm sure they'll get around to banning the rest. Too big, too small, too powerful, not powerful enough.
That is why the NRA fights so hard against any infringement on the Second amendment. They know that if they give an inch the gun grabbers will take a mile and then some under the guise of "common sense"
They want to ban assault rifles because they look scary... Don't they know Black Guns Matter ??
There are other guns that are semi automatic that are not black.
When those are gone and some idiot takes up an old bolt action style or a cowboy type lever action 30/30 and starts murdering people then those guns will also be banned.
For those that don't know a AR15 shoots a small caliber .223 high energy round but pretty much most other rifles shoot a larger more powerful bullet like a 30/30.
Let's not forget about the bolt action sniper rifles that are deadly at extreme ranges based on the shooters skill. Imagine a classroom of kids under fire from a mile away. BANNED.
We have shotguns that are semi auto, pump action, double and single barrel. A .223 round from a AR15 will put a neat little hole in a target but a 12 gauge will shred that same target at close range. So those will have to be banned to.
As guns are banned those that still want to shoot will go back in time to black powder guns and even those are very deadly.
And when all the guns are banned those that are intent on murder will turn to knives.
What can we do when mental health is the real problem?
No, they are sheep. And since when does being outspoken in the wake of a tragedy make anyone a hero? I don't see a component of bravery here.
I don't see them being heroes either and calling them survivors is also a stretch. The survivors are the ones that were injured and are now recovering.
If the killer had used molotov cocktails instead of a gun and he had tossed them into each classroom setting them on fire, the kids that were burned would be victims. The ones that tried to stop him or help their friends would be brave. The ones that escaped the blaze would be lucky and the heroes would be the firefighters that rushed in to help the injured and douse the flames.
We don't need to ban guns but we do need to make sure they do not end up in the hands of people that should not have them.
I've never said all guns should be banned but really unless you're hunter why have an AR-15?
Why do cops have AR15's?
Same reason!
Actually a better reason for a private citizen than a cop - cops have body armor & the advantage of other cops rushing to their aid in times of need. A cop isn't *ever* going to come to your rescue as fast as they do for other cops. How long before the cops arrive when you call 911? What about after a flood, hurricane, tornado, or power outage? That's when a regular citizen *needs* to be able to take care of themselves, or suffer the consequences.
A small, lightweight weapon that can be fired accurately even by children and the disabled, able to engage multiple bad-guys, cheap to practice with, can hold a bayonet, flashlight & laser, can cook bacon on the barrel, enlarges the boy-parts.. Lots of reasons?
This is such a great response to this thought by roseba.
Originally Posted by roseba I don't think people who believe they need semi-automatic rifles and guns, or ones modified to be them are rational people. I think every single one of them should be checked for mental illness. It's not a rational point of view. It's point of view based on fear of things; some of which take a very cynical and dystonia point of view. It's also a point of view not based on good outcome statistics, but the opposite. In my mind, they are loony if they fight tooth and nail for rational regulation, which is what they have been doing.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ringwise
I own a semi-automatic gun, and I can assure you I'm very rational. More so than those that are hell-bent on disarming me, and leaving me, a woman, unprotected against an intruder. More so than those that ignore history, and realize that the first step towards tyranny is disarming the populace.
It's not fear, it's being practical. Do you lock your front door? Do you lock your car? Do you walk in a crime-ridden area late at night?
Wanting to ban the very guns that many Americans own, while calling them murderers or crazy, is the very definition of mental illness. You don't know me. I don't know you. I have taken a quick stock of my friends and acquaintances, and every last one of them that want to ban guns are on medication for a mental illness. Don't want a gun? Fine, don't own one. But the 2nd Amendment says I can.
Well said ringwise and I agree.
Owning a firearm responsibly is like having a flashlight in case the power goes out.
No one wants to be staggering around in the dark so we have flashlights to lit our way just in case.
It is called being prepared and owning a gun is the same thing. You hope you don't need it, you will check on it now and again, turn it on and off but when you need it you are very thankful that you have it and know how to use it.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
