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I think the employee's job was to ensure non-residents do not use the community pool. This is not unusual. It has nothing to do with race. A community pool is for members of the community and paid for by them. So I don't know what the big deal is and why the employee was fired.
The employer should have backed him up. But there is so much pressure from activists that community management might think they will get a bad rap and be the target of retribution. It's complicated although it may appear straight forward.
No the employee should not have been fired and should take his complaint to the Labor Dept. It's not necessary to sue just to take a job back or chastise an employer.
The Labor Dept governs all matters to do with employers and employees.
There was no reason to single the woman out. All residents have a passcard that unlocks the gate. This woman had one. No one else is required to show i.d. if they have the pass card, why was she? No reason whatsoever. There was no reason for this employee to believe she didn't belong there since she had the pass card just like everyone else.
Years ago I worked a free coffee station at a casino in Atlantic City. This wasn't just for hotel guests, but anyone who was a customer in the casino. One manager used to tell me to question people who looked like they didn't belong there. I know what he meant, he meant people who looked undesirable in some way. I always responded with "tell me what those people look like and I will" and he never had an answer.
You can't tell who belongs in a casino by dress, we had high rollers who played $100 slot machines who looked like they slept on a park bench and wore stained sweatsuits. There was no way I was questioning anyone. I know some of the people who got coffee were homeless people, but I wasn't going to turn them away. If the criteria is "any casino customer" than anyone in the casino was getting free coffee. How did I know if even the homeless guy stuck a quarter in a slot machine on the way to the coffee bar? If he did, he's a customer of the casino.
In this case, he was not told to ask random people who had pass cards for additional i.d. he took it upon himself, and the only person he demanded it from was the lone black person.
Hmm....in light of how some groups have made allegations (unfounded ) as they are...thus causing some folks to lose their careers and reputation. I tend to think it's become the norm to simply believe the allegation instead of stand by a person's years of positive contribution.
I'm sadly awaiting for my two year old nephew to be brought up on charges of inappropriately groping his mom. (Gratuitous sarcasm)
Most of these allegations are not unfounded, and are on video.
No, simply having racist views should not be fireable. Acting on them however is. If you harass your company’s black customers because you have a bias against black people you should be fired.
And it is not legal to discriminate or harass because you don’t like someone’s skin color.
These “Living while black” incidents have been going on for 200 years here. It’s just now we are hearing about them all. People have to accept the free ride to hate and discriminate is done, there is a price to pay now, as there should be.
First you have to prove he was biased. He said he was asking for pool credentials several person per week.
Which was perfectly OK until he had a nerve to ask a black lady. I don't know all the details and don't know happened. But neither do those who called the company and demanded he is fired. And neither did the company know if he was baised or not.
In any case, this is no the point. Even if we was biased - his actions were not in any way illegal. And had nothing to do with his job which he lost.
How do you draw a line if someone's actions are deplorable or not? You can't. That's why it should be illegal to fire anyone for whatever actions that person does outside his work duties.
How is harassing someone at a public pool reflective of someone’s “views on a political matter?”
What harassing are you talking about? Was he convicted in a court of law of harassing? No.
Did he do anything illegal? NO.
So you can call his behavior all you want, but not everyone subscribes to you PC language.
He wasn't fired because of his bias. He was fired because of his actions in calling the police on someone who wasn't breaking any laws.
If you do something to make a public embarrassment out of yourself, the company you work for can decide you are a liability to them and let you go. No matter how unfair that is. We live in "at will" employment - at least in most states - in the USA. I don't really like at will employment, but it probably won't go away any time soon.
Really?
Are you serious?
Is it now illegal to call a police on someone how is not breaking the law?
Or is it still legal, but if you see someone breaking into your neighbor house and God forbid it turns out that person was his friend who stays there - should you lose your job? Or maybe go to jail for a hate crime if God forbid that person was one of the protected species?
First amendment: you are free to say whatever you want to say (absent yelling FIRE in a movie theater). However, you are not exempt from the consequences of your verbal utterances: be they positive or negative.
Your 2nd company fired you - with/out cause is irrelevant. The company higher-ups deemed your behavior/utterances not in keeping with company beliefs/morals/standards. That is the consequence of you exercising your first amendment right. Say what you will, no one is denying you your right to say whatever you said; only now you are paying with a negative consequence.
As a matter of fact, the general public does not see the higher-ups often or at all. What is seen are the everyday representatives of the company - you and the rest of the underlings - secretaries, receptionists, service reps, repair people, etc.
That's the problem. Companies are not allowed to have any beliefs and morals. And the standards should apply only to the conduct within a company or when representing it.
Joe Schmo assembly worker should be allowed to say whatever he wants at hes free time and shouldn't lose his job over it.
He was not doing his job. The HOA rules did not require any attendee to present photo identification for use of the pool. The only requirement was to have a working badge for access. She had a badge to get inside the pool but Mr. HOA wanted to see her photo identification and called the police when she (rightfully) could or would not provide that. Once the police came, the officer confirmed her badge access and asked Mr. HOA if he was satisfied, to which he replied rather smugly that "a photo ID would have been better". He never offered the woman an apology and wasted first responder resources on someone who was not breaking any HOA rules or laws.
If he had not involved law enforcement, he would still have his cushy $100k+ job now.
No argument here. Let's agree he didn't do his pool job right. I have no problem that he got fired from his pool job since he didn't do it right.
My problem is that he also got fired from his regular day job. Simply because he made a mistake doing his volunteer job that has nothing to do with his regular job and someone decided he is a racist.
Even if he is racist - that is still legal.
So again, why a person is being punished for doing nothing illegal? Why a company is not allowed to fire someone who believes that women are third class and that gays should be killed , but is free to fire someone who have some different biases?
Not only that, but it's not a free speech issue. It's an abuse of authority issue. That's what some people don't seem to understand. He wasn't a random citizen or resident of the apartment complex. He was in a position of authority, using that to harass and intimidate a resident based on her race.
Whether or not that's justifiable grounds for firing him from a completely unrelated job is another question.
No , that is the question.
The pool job - forget about it. He didn't do it right - he got fired. No complaints here.
But that unrelated job - that is my point.
If a company cannot fire anyone based on religion, nationlality, etc, etc - same should be applied to all the actions outside the job duties if they are not illegal.
First you have to prove he was biased. He said he was asking for pool credentials several person per week.
Which was perfectly OK until he had a nerve to ask a black lady. I don't know all the details and don't know happened. But neither do those who called the company and demanded he is fired. And neither did the company know if he was baised or not.
In any case, this is no the point. Even if we was biased - his actions were not in any way illegal. And had nothing to do with his job which he lost.
How do you draw a line if someone's actions are deplorable or not? You can't. That's why it should be illegal to fire anyone for whatever actions that person does outside his work duties.
Why he asked her specifically is still not clear. Bias? Perhaps, but one cannot say for sure. Perhaps some other aspect of her behaviour? Who knows.
Did he idenitify himself as the pool manager? Who knows.
She certianly brought up the racial bias angle very quickly to the police though. She obviously thought that was his only possible motive.
He did say the pool cards get passed around, so perhaps that is why he wanted an address confirmed.
She did not seem to have shown him the pool pass card (first thing I would have done), and when the police asked she said "Yes, I will show it to you"
I doubt she was cooperative with him when he asked.
I agree with the woman though, calling the police was too much.
Last edited by snebarekim; 07-08-2018 at 03:31 PM..
It would be interesting to know the "reason" given for this guy's firing (at the other company - not the pool company, which would be directly related to his actions at work).
I think it does all come down to "at will" employment, which might cover everything except protected reasons for firing someone (age, race, ethnicity, religion, et al).
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