Liberation Movements Gone Mad - Bad Behavior, Teen Pregnancy, Truancy and Hopelessness in the Heartland - Any Solutions (Iraq, generation)

[txfriend]

Lets get real, the Heartland or flyover country as it’s known has never been the ideal place. At best it was and in some cases still is an idealized dream.

The major changes that have occurred during the 77 years of my life that have had a profound effect on our life's is the end to the draft and the evil of having an abortion.

I know most of you will not agree and that is your right, but I have been a witness to the results.

As a poor and somewhat ignorant youth, the military draft and service is what made us grow to be disciplined respectful adults. It made us responsible and in many cases educated us for the future.

The Heartland is great for praying away sins and taking away sex education and contraceptives for young women. They tell you how great it is to reproduce and have children that they can’t afford or want.

They also want more prisons for the same kids that grow up to be disenfranchised citizens with looser parents.

By the way, most of us believed the shows such as "Ozzie and Harriet"and "Leave it to Beaver" were nothing more than BS, showing off how rich people lived.

[in_newengland]

Well, I lived through the Ozzie and Harriet, Leave it to Beaver era and they were not rich people. They were supposed to be middle class suburban families. They were a sanitized version of what I saw all around me. I say "sanitized" because they were so perfect--they never fought, never raised their voices, the dads never lost their jobs, the moms never got depressed. Everything was great. Not. But the bland lifestyle was pretty much typical of that era from what I could see.

Summer of Love--1967--we did not want to get rid of old values but we did want to change things. We were ignorant in that we actually thought we could change the world. We were young and foolish, invulnerable.

We wanted to end the Viet Nam War. That was the main thing. Later on we wanted better rights for women. Back then women only had choices to be a secretary, teacher, nurse, or social worker. The classified ads were split as to Jobs-Men and Jobs-Women. And even if we accepted the nurse or secretary type jobs that we were allowed to work at, there were no laws and not even any mention of how we got treated by some men in the workplace. And rape was always the woman's fault.

Those were the types of things we wanted to fix. But it went way too far. By that time I was out working and done with any protests or trying to make a better world. I just wanted it to be clear that we did not advocate for all this craziness that came later. We only wanted to fix a few things but somehow it took on a life of its own. You had students doing sit-ins in their professors' offices, stupid, disrespectful things like that. Most of us thought it was crazy.

And we never pushed for this permissiveness in child raising either. Just to set the record straight. I don't know where that nonsense came from but it wasn't from us.

[Sonic_Spork]

I don't know. I'm pretty damned liberated, libertine even, and I'm happier than most people I know. But I'm also very community minded, I actually devote my time, money, and efforts to HELPING PEOPLE when I think that most folks who grouse and complain about how bad "society" is are just sitting there grabbing and hoarding and isolating themselves. I see it as, if you sit around looking for number one, and expecting someone to come along and give you happiness and you don't know your neighbors and you think "people suck" or "hate people" or think "people are idiots"...yeah, you've been had. You ARE the problem. Period. Don't like the world? Change it. You can't do that sitting at home staring at your computer though.

A lot of people here are saying that out of control sexuality is a big part of the issue; I don't think it is. I think that the ingrained idea that sex MUST be linked to finding love and relationships, the assumptions, the lies, the games people play, and the irresponsible and uneducated sexual behavior is the real issue. I think that in talking to young people about sexual choices, you need to give them better reasons, lots of real-world reasons, for making good choices. Better reasons than, "Your reputation young lady." I don't think that bad marriages should stay together just for the sake of upholding the institution. I don't think that marriage is necessary to raise healthy well adjusted kids. I don't have a problem with people coming up with unconventional lifestyles and solutions if that actually helps them to pursue happiness. I hate the idea that validation can only come from a romantic partner and you have to clutch at each other for every single need you have, that the hero gets issued the girl and she has his babies and they live happily ever after, I don't like the thinking that getting "back" (lol) to some scripted and more conformist society is the cure to our ills. I could tell you the story of my Grandpa's growing up in the 40's & 50's, but it's a bit beside the point...it wasn't happy. A lot of people weren't living in Mayberry, guys.

The issue I see is that one of the more significant drivers of happiness for human beings is social contact, a sense of belonging, of tribe, of community, and our society has been manipulated to splinter people into isolation. Isolation isn't good for you. Not even if you are an introvert. I think that you've got social engineers pushing media and government, sitcoms to tax policy, and the point was, you get a nuclear family that is isolated from everyone else. I have seen MIDDLE SCHOOLERS for heaven's sakes, where they are supposedly "boyfriend and girlfriend" and telling each other they are not allowed to TALK to people of the opposite sex. OK so these controlling and jealous isolated little units of man, woman, and kids are perfect because man and woman have to work their butts off to earn money (which is taxed) and spend it (taxed again) to keep the kids in material bliss, and even if Mom & Dad were capable of frugality on their own, what happens when society convinces you that if you fail to provide the proper mountain of shiny packages under the tree once a year, hey, you're a terrible parent. Go watch "The Polar Express" awww the little kid, Santa never came for him, boo hoo hoo...better keep that magic comin' Mom and Dad!!! SPEND MORE! Don't have it? BORROW IT. Then work the next decade to pay it off! Be too busy to care what your overlords are doing here or abroad, and worry about your neighbors, especially if they are different from you, they're up to no good! Everything is terrifying! Stay inside, and...

Wait...wait...we can't have kids going outside and building community connections...how do we stop that? Screens! It's perfect! They will isolate and grow up isolated, and we can advertise and sell stuff to them, gather info on everything about them and control them utterly. Brilliant.

Oh sure, sex sells and violence sells. But it's not sexual freedom here, guys. It's slavery to sex as tied distinctly to your idea of being a worthwhile human being, deserving of love and contact. Ya'll want to fuss about what the weird people are doing, but complain about "society" as though it's a few trans people ruining everything. They are such a small, tiny proportion of the "society" you SAY is going to hell, is all messed up, and your solution is that everyone should be more like "normal." As defined by the majority. Who are...not ok. It's like those arguments that letting gay people marry messes with the institution of marriage. Nope, hetero monogamous people are doing just fine breaking the concept of marriage, gays aren't making you/us get divorces left and right. We don't even know how to talk to each other or treat each other with love, empathy or consideration. The screens didn't teach us that.

/rant. Sorry...not sorry...

TL;DR ~ Love thy neighbor.

[JrzDefector]

Actually, teens are having less sex, drinking less and doing fewer drugs than they did in previous decades, from what I've been reading. But you're going to see the worst examples splashed all over the news and social media.

[RamenAddict]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

What's your solution? Liberation is liberating, except for the inevitable victims. If people can't handle being parents, they shouldn't have children. Full stop.

Having the mass of teenagers in areas that are not upper-middle class and affluent bored out of their minds is not a solution. These people often turn to opioids, sex and petty crime to ease the boredom. Many fancy themselves "transgender" for the thrill and drama. Quite simply in many areas people perceive no future; none.

They are bored with school since the only post-school career path seems to be the military. If you suggest they read or exercise in their (too abundant) leisure time, they laugh. Except there's nothing funny about it.

In the "good old days" households did not typically consist of a mangled mix of half-siblings. No one is asking if they're doing their homework. In school the teachers struggle with sleeping students or students distracted by their devices. I suppose that beats the alternative, 16-year-old Milwaukee student arrested after punching teacher in the head.

But seriously, things are fine for people from disciplined and disciplining families. For others, not so much.

In the “good old days” women and any non-white, non-heterosexual male was confined to a mediocre, low paying job (if they had access to work at all). How is that an improvement? Not only did they not perceive a future, there really WAS no future for them that was positive.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by jbgusa

I recently became aware of an online rant by certain individual, who stated that he was between 15 and 18 years old. The person presented himself as a high school student. He described himself as living in “Loserville,” a town adjacent to “Craktown” and stated that he was only interested in “getting money fast” and “school (is) not (his) interest.” He also described that he and his friends were into activities that were “very not right.”

This post or essay from this young man seemed intelligent. He stated that he was not a migrant or a member of any group subject to racial or ethnic discrimination.

This got me to thinking about problems such as teen pregnancies, dropping out of society, opioid abuse and bad behavior generally. These people are, in general, not going to grow into being providers. They are going to parent children who don't know their fathers, and may not even know their mothers, because of incarceration.

The question is how do we get people back to pride in their homes, schools and community? Single parenthood, unconventional relationships, and dropping out of school are the order of the day. What have we gained by "liberating" people from nuclear family-hood? And teaching children that there are no rules, no limits. Is the mental anguish this is causing eased only by opioids? Why are religious, educational or community leaders taking an interest? Where are the pastors, teachers and small-town mayors?

While politically I am liberal, I feel that experimentation in lifestyles, gender identities and sexual promiscuity that has developed since the "Summer of (Free) Love" in Haight-Ashbury in 1967 has not ended well. Time to walk back from the experiment. Maybe "Ozzie and Harriet"and "Leave it to Beaver" were cornball but at at least the results are better than we have now.

I agree with most of what you have said.

I've been very outspoken about the epidemic and acceptance of teenaged, out-of-wedlock pregnancies. Sometimes followed by marriage, but oft times, not.

The same group of people appear to make anti-education statements, and are against birth control.

A stable family, headed by two mature, financially secure adults, seems like the best situation. However, I know of many people who were involved with disastrous marriages who needed to divorce their spouses. I also know that not all children of divorce are unproductive, unstable or unhappy. Parenting is a hard job. It's commonsensical to admit that it's easier to share that job with another person.

[Sonic_Spork]

Originally Posted by sheena12

I agree with most of what you have said.

I've been very outspoken about the epidemic and acceptance of teenaged, out-of-wedlock pregnancies. Sometimes followed by marriage, but oft times, not.

The same group of people appear to make anti-education statements, and are against birth control.

A stable family, headed by two mature, financially secure adults, seems like the best situation. However, I know of many people who were involved with disastrous marriages who needed to divorce their spouses. I also know that not all children of divorce are unproductive, unstable or unhappy. Parenting is a hard job. It's commonsensical to admit that it's easier to share that job with another person.

You know, regarding birth control. After Depo Provera (which is the 3 month injection, and I believe also used for chemical castration) demolished my libido and really did tremendous harm to my marriage, I thought "the only group of females I would recommend this birth control injection to, are teenage girls. Certainly not adults trying to maintain a healthy relationship."

I would need to be convinced about some worrisome lasting side effects like early osteoporosis that were reported, but not only is it effective birth control with a lower potential failure rate due to accidental misuse compared to a daily pill a girl has to take, but it also has a decent likelihood of serious psychological side effects such as loss of libido and intense interest in practical things like accounting homework (at least...it did for me!) The best word to describe my personality during the time I was on that junk is, "robotic." I lost interest in my social life and forgot how to have fun. I didn't want to be touched.

Frankly I'm surprised more parents don't march their teenage girls in for the shot, knowing what it did to me.

[jbgusa]

Originally Posted by sheena12

However, I know of many people who were involved with disastrous marriages who needed to divorce their spouses. I also know that not all children of divorce are unproductive, unstable or unhappy.

I totally agree. My wife was one of two twin daughters of a pretty bad marriage. They separated three years after the twins were born, almost to the day. My wife and her sister are both productive, stable and relatively happy (I hope). I have been happily married to her for over 27 years.

I think the key is that most of their peers were two-family households. There were examples to follow and to some extent envy. Also both of their parents remarried a few years after the divorce became final. At no time, for them, was illegitimacy, truancy, single-parent households or violence the norm.

Also my father died when I was 15. I didn't go out and join a street gang. And my mother remarried 17 months later.

In Jewish households, in general, these kinds of pathologies weren't "a thing" though they did and do exist to a minor extent.

Originally Posted by sheena12

A stable family, headed by two mature, financially secure adults, seems like the best situation. Parenting is a hard job. It's commonsensical to admit that it's easier to share that job with another person.

Exactly.

[sheena12]

Originally Posted by Sonic_Spork

You know, regarding birth control. After Depo Provera (which is the 3 month injection, and I believe also used for chemical castration) demolished my libido and really did tremendous harm to my marriage, I thought "the only group of females I would recommend this birth control injection to, are teenage girls. Certainly not adults trying to maintain a healthy relationship."

I would need to be convinced about some worrisome lasting side effects like early osteoporosis that were reported, but not only is it effective birth control with a lower potential failure rate due to accidental misuse compared to a daily pill a girl has to take, but it also has a decent likelihood of serious psychological side effects such as loss of libido and intense interest in practical things like accounting homework (at least...it did for me!) The best word to describe my personality during the time I was on that junk is, "robotic." I lost interest in my social life and forgot how to have fun. I didn't want to be touched.

Frankly I'm surprised more parents don't march their teenage girls in for the shot, knowing what it did to me.

I'm sorry that you experienced those side effects with that particular contraceptive. It truly sounds horrible!

However, I am sure there are alternatives.

[RoadLessTraveled2015]

I am a big advocate for remaining child free.