Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
The LEFT sees the world as Oppressors and Oppressed. And if they can't find any, they will manufacture an issue to claim oppression.
Just laugh at them until they get tired.
Years ago I was good friends with an elderly Cherokee man, and he was a huge Redskins fan. He was not offended in the least. He had no problem with the name or the mascot.
You just can't put people in a box.
Individuals.
While there are plenty who are offended.
There are plenty who are not offended at all.
Status:
"Moldy Tater Gangrene, even before Moscow Marge."
(set 1 day ago)
Location: Dallas, TX
5,790 posts, read 3,599,675 times
Reputation: 5697
"Redskin", as said, is derogatory. I see no way around that one.
The other names, even the more "heroic" ones -- I also have objections to. It's due to Native Americans having little (if any) control over the connotations of that name, even positive ones. In other words, using those mascot names takes control of the name away from Native Americans. And don't bring up other groups not seeing their own group being disparaged.
Cowboys from the very start are highly celebrated in Texas culture from the beginning. Same with steelworkers in Pittsburgh. Or back before the mid-90s, Oilers in Houston. Or Vikings in Minnesota. Even in the case of the Fighting Irish of Notre Dame, the Irish are (presumably) always were a large part of the student body, and so they had and have some control over how ND used its mascot. Similar story for the University of Louisiana-Lafayette Ragin' Cajuns.
Native Americans were originally one of the most disparaged groups ("Wild Indians", "The only good "engine" is a dead "engine" [sound-alike] - to name to examples; not to mention a lot of disparagement of Native American culture, if not of the individual ethnic members themselves). That means our society as a whole lost the right to use names and things tightly associated with Native groups. So any right there is to use such names belongs exclusively to the native teams themselves.
I subscribe to Indian Country Today, a newsletter covering many different tribes, and have found it very enlightening in the most unexpected ways. What has become evident to me is that the indigenous peoples are really in a quandary about what it is they want and how to get it.
For instance:
There are groups that will 'admit' members with minimal native blood and others that promote an ideal of retaining and advocating for pureblood ancestry!
They scream 'cultural appropriation' if kids dress as Indians for a theme party but they will wear cowboy boots, jeans, and hats all the time. And a while back I saw a writeup promoting a Miss Navajo (or somesuch tribe) beauty contest. My my, how native is that?
To their credit, silly claims to sovereignty are on the decline as common sense has led the more practical, and heavily mixed-blood members, to advance their goals by running for state and local elected offices. Tribal positions appear to be more advisory than functional, but this likely varies by reservation and population size.
Now, to the OP: If all the Indian names in sports were changed to European groups or animals the native Indian presence in American culture, small as it is, would grow ever more faint. And in a cruel and ironic twist such erasure would not elevate their position but on the contrary, marginalize and reduce it in the consciousness of the American public.
Is this what our American Indian brothers and sisters really want?
I, for one would not object in the slightest. (Go, Gladiators!)
As they say, be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!
I subscribe to Indian Country Today, a newsletter covering many different tribes, and have found it very enlightening in the most unexpected ways. What has become evident to me is that the indigenous peoples are really in a quandary about what it is they want and how to get it.
For instance:
There are groups that will 'admit' members with minimal native blood and others that promote an ideal of retaining and advocating for pureblood ancestry!
They scream 'cultural appropriation' if kids dress as Indians for a theme party but they will wear cowboy boots, jeans, and hats all the time. And a while back I saw a writeup promoting a Miss Navajo (or somesuch tribe) beauty contest. My my, how native is that?
To their credit, silly claims to sovereignty are on the decline as common sense has led the more practical, and heavily mixed-blood members, to advance their goals by running for state and local elected offices. Tribal positions appear to be more advisory than functional, but this likely varies by reservation and population size.
Now, to the OP: If all the Indian names in sports were changed to European groups or animals the native Indian presence in American culture, small as it is, would grow ever more faint. And in a cruel and ironic twist such erasure would not elevate their position but on the contrary, marginalize and reduce it in the consciousness of the American public.
Is this what our American Indian brothers and sisters really want?
I, for one would not object in the slightest. (Go, Gladiators!)
As they say, be careful what you wish for... you just might get it!
You have an odd take on news from Indian Country. I won't get into it, except to say, that the Miss Navajo contest isn't a beauty contest. Contestants compete in several skill areas; knowledge of the language (this is required for entry), efficiency in slaughtering a sheep, personal history of leadership in the community. The concept of "beauty" is radically different, from that of European society and its derivatives. It has nothing to do with physical appearance.
This ^^^ should give you a clue as to how far off your perceptions and conclusions are, about the other topics you read and comment about. Are you actually complaining about Native Americans wearing jeans? It hasn't been acceptable for a long time, for people to go around mostly naked. Of course they wear jeans! They didn't ask to be overrun by a Puritanical society, that required them to wear clothes. (See also: the history of the takeover of the Hawaiian kingdom, and the missionaries' invention of the muumuu.)
So let me ask you this Clara: The Washington Redskins...how many Redskins fans do you think could even name the Indian tribes that lived in the D.C., Maryland, and Virginia area before whites took over?
I'm sure there are at least a half dozen more that I don't know. I only know these off the top of my head because so many towns, streets rivers, and bays are named after the tribes that inhabited Maryland and the Chesapeake Bay area.
P.S. - I am a fan of the Redskin's but please don't hate me.
I know a half Navajo/half Laguna guy who lived in northeast Ohio for his high school years. Now back in New MExico he wears a Chief Wahoo (Cleveland Indians) hat every day.
A lot of Native Americans in New MExico wear Redskins sweatshirts.
Maybe it is a way of "owning" it?
I don't know. From the personalities of most Native Americans I know, the vast majority are a bit thicker skinned than the average easily offended Politically Correct white American (who, by the way, seem to ignore the offensive caricatures of many other cultures that represent various sports teams, not least the "fightin' Irish" mascot who is not only a ridiculously silly depiction of an Irishman, but also emphasizes a negative stereotype of Irish pugnaciousness).
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
(See also: the history of the takeover of the Hawaiian kingdom, and the missionaries' invention of the muumuu.)