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Old 11-03-2019, 06:16 PM
 
Location: Texas
821 posts, read 464,660 times
Reputation: 2099

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First I remind you all that a graduated or progressive income tax is a plank in the original Communist Party platform.

Most of this tax the rich is jealousy pure and simple. Let's face it. If you had a billion dollars you wouldn't want to be taxed any differently than if you had $100,000. "But billionaires have more money." Well, yeah, they do. Like Bill Gates who sold programs to store 1's and zeros in certain orders so that an input into a computer from a guy making $30,000 will show him certain colors on a computer monitor. The colors being arranged in patterns that represent his language, art etc. Or Zuckerburg who got rich using data from people who VOLUNTARILY submitted it to his "app" or whatever you want to call it. I have neither read, nor heard, of any billionaire, millionaire, et al who held a gun to anybody's head and took their money.

These people didn't get rich out of thin air. They made or are making a product you are willing to pay for so what is your problem? You agree to pay their asking price and they make money. Why be so jealous?

As for billionaires being able to pay more to reduce the deficit as I have read here, do billionaires have some magical property that gives them more than one vote? Budgets originate in the House. The People's chamber. Need I say more? Okay, I will. Each and every one of us is responsible for the national debt. I don't care who you are or how much money you make. You have a vote and I can guarantee you 90% of Americans today will vote pork over beans ANYTIME!

Now if one really wants to get serious here I have a suggestion. Why don't we pass a law requiring each citizen to pay taxes according to his impact on reducing the national debt? There's an idea! Then we could all be with the bottom 40-whatever percent of American's the next year because we would all be broke!

I don't get how Americans have lowered themselves over the years to constantly worrying about how much their fellow citizens have and scheming how to take it away. It's a dang shame and it is wrong! And it is unfitting of an honorable people.

Last edited by amil23; 11-03-2019 at 06:49 PM..
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Old 11-03-2019, 06:39 PM
 
Location: Prepperland
19,018 posts, read 14,193,756 times
Reputation: 16740
Quote:
Originally Posted by RationalExpectations View Post
If you have a billion dollars, you do not pay income tax. You don't pay INCOME tax on savings. You pay INCOME TAX ONLY ON INCOME.

The only tax imposed in the USA for merely owning something is a property tax - for most people, that's a residential property tax on the house they own. It is a tax merely for owning something. That's why it is a wealth tax. It is imposed at local level, not at the Federal level.

Federal Income Taxes are due only on -- surprise -- INCOME. Not on owning something.
WRONG.
Governments are not taxing income nor property, but a privilege.
“The income tax is, therefore, not a tax on income as such. It is an excise tax with respect to certain activities and PRIVILEGES which is measured by reference to the income which they produce. The income is not the subject of the tax: it is the basis for determining the amount of the tax.”
- - - F. Morse Hubbard, Treasury Department legislative draftsman. House Congressional Record March 27th 1943, page 2580.

‘When a court refers to an income tax being in the nature of an excise, it is merely stating that the tax is not on the property itself, but rather it is a fee for the PRIVILEGE of receiving gain from the property. The tax is based upon the amount of the gain, not the value of the property.'
- - - John R. Luckey, Legislative Attorney with the Library of Congress, ‘Frequently Asked Questions Concerning The Federal Income Tax' (C.R.S. Report for Congress 92-303A (1992)).

‘The terms ‘excise tax' and ‘privilege tax' are synonymous. The two are often used interchangeably.'
- - - American Airways v. Wallace 57 F.2d 877, 880

PROPERTY TAX - An ad valorem tax, usually levied by a city or county, on the value of real or personal property that the taxpayer owns on a specified date.
- - - Black's Law Dictionary, Sixth ed., p.1218
FYI - absolute ownership of private property is not a taxable privilege and is constitutionally protected. Whereas qualified ownership of estate (aka "Real estate" "real property") is a privilege subject to an ad valorem tax.
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:13 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,957,761 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
The short answer is: Because of extremely weak labor unions.

Labor unions democratize societies like nothing else does. Countries with strong labor union movements have universal health care because labor unions are a big force in their political system. Labor unions are responsible for mass mobilization and organizing during elections and crucially, educating workers year-round, election or not.

In America, the money of the billionaires is the only big force in the elections. There's no counterweight. Workers become easy prey for corporate propaganda in the absence of any counterweight. And billionaires have radically different priorities than the working class represented by labor unions. Billionaires dont need universal health care, or even insurance.

Destroy labor unions and the elected representatives will run into your arms and do your bidding.
Labor Unions are mostly dead in this country when compared to corporate and banking lobbyists.
We should requre union lobbyists to match every corporate and banking lobbyist in Washington DC by money spent and the number of them.

As it stands, union lobbyists are small in number and maybe spend 100 million while the amount spent by corporate and banking lobbyists is in the billions of dollars.

What we have in this country today is rule by corporate and banking interests rather than rule by the people. Only a small number of Americans have representation in our government.
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:18 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,957,761 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Loud View Post
I wonder how many Labor Union Presidents and Union elites became politicians...
The majority of the politicians in DC are on the corporate and banking lobbyist payroll.
Also, most of those politicians are revolving door industry insiders in politics to help their industry, not to help all Americans.

Goldman Sachs has a program to fast track employees in high positions into politics. They encourage it. There are 10 banking lobbyists for every politician in Washington DC.
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:19 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,957,761 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by PCALMike View Post
Why do you think the only real semblance of a public safety net; Social Security and Medicare, took place during the heyday of labor union organizing in the 1930s and 1960s?

When labor unions are destroyed, then the working class will follow the same path. A lone ranger doesnt stand a chance against a well-equipped platoon. Big capital knows this very well. Thats why they are organized and make sure workers are not.
Big Business is very organized and have tons of lobbyists to represent them.
But, it is evil when labor organizes.
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Old 11-04-2019, 05:21 AM
 
8,104 posts, read 3,957,761 times
Reputation: 3070
Quote:
Originally Posted by 2Loud View Post
So you don't know? I don't either... hence the question.

I grew up in a small rural town in PA in the 70's and 80's. We had about ten factories in town. Mostly fiberglass boat hulls, saw mills, timber and paper processing and wood furniture. Anyways...

In the mid 70's Unions elites came from out of town and promised castles in the sky to the employees and was able to unionize them one by one. Those Union elites were all from out of town and seemed to know what they were talking about. Everyone bought in and paid their dues. Believing someone was going to fight for the little guy. Those Union elites fought so hard against those small town owners that their demands just could not be met over time. They kept pushing and pushing increasing the demands with each passing year. Those small owners just didn't have the customer base or capital to meet the demands. Through that time I saw each one of these small factories close one by one. Many of my school mates fathers and mothers lost their jobs. The Union elites from out of town collected their dues and left when the last factory closed. They came promising a better life for all and instead they "taxed" everyone with dues and wound up with it all shut it all down. They did not care one scrap about those employees. They got their cut.

Thirty-five years later, there are still no factories in that small town. None. The buildings are still there with broken windows and caved in roofs. The schools are struggling, there is no tax base and meth has taken over the current generation. The poverty rate in that small town is double the national rate. Home values are less than half the national average. My father ended up just turning the home we grew up in for 20 years over to HUD. He could not sell it privately but figured it was better then nothing.

Lack of unions does seem to be a factor in areas like Raleigh-Durham and Charlotte. NC is exploding right now. 70 people a day are moving to Raleigh-Durham from CA and the rust belt. Only about 2% of North Carolinian's are in a union. Lowest in the country. That's not an accident and seems to be working judging by the explosive growth.

I saw no future in that rural PA town. It was ruined and likely never coming back. So I married the girl I loved as soon as I could in '88 and we split heading south. It breaks my heart when we go up once a year to visit family and see whats left of town. Yes I blame the out of town Union elites sucking it dry. It didn't matter to them because they didn't live there. They got their $$$ and we saw many of those same names became politicians in the big cities. They used rural America as a stepping stone for personal gain.

I do wonder what the town would be like today had the Unions never showed up. Could the same have happened? We'll never know.
All those factories closed up shop and moved to Communist China where unions are banned.
Got to love labor under communism where workers have no rights.
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Old 11-04-2019, 08:24 AM
 
12,282 posts, read 13,234,949 times
Reputation: 4985
Quote:
Originally Posted by LifeIsGood01 View Post
I don't get why any American not in the a1% would be against Universal Healthcare since every other first world nation has it and so do some third world nations.

Why do you like a system where a private ambulance can refuse to transport you to the hospital unless you pay first.

Why do you think it's fine for insulin which costs $5 to make to be sold for $500?

Why do you think it's fair for a person to have an illness and need treatment and you go from being charged $1000 a month with a $200 copay to a surprise $20K charge and a $4K copay and then next month calling and being told that they can't tell you how much it will cost ahead of time

And why do you fight so hard and protect billionaires to keep getting richer while many are one paycheck away or one fire or tornado away from being homeless? or going bankrupt from a medical bill or not being able to pay for treatment and end up dead.
The bottom line is low education and low-income voters that get most of their news from the tv or local newspapers and talk show radio etc. Very little access to any Democratic information, racism. They make emotional knee jerk responses in their votes.
The very rich Sinclair family owns 375 tv stations across the USA. Every day a politically charged editorial is read. They believe what the NRA tells them. Need I go on?
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Old 11-04-2019, 08:39 AM
 
Location: The Triad
34,088 posts, read 82,929,741 times
Reputation: 43661
Quote:
Originally Posted by Versatile View Post
The bottom line is (10's of millions of) low education and low-income voters
that get most of their news from the tv or local newspapers and talk show radio etc.
Very little access to any Democratic information, racism.

They make emotional knee jerk responses in their votes.
The very rich Sinclair family owns 375 tv stations across the USA.
Every day a politically charged editorial is read.
They believe what the NRA tells them.

Need I go on?
That they've been fooled into over-producing
which just keeps their numbers too high (vs work they could do)
to have any real influence on markets or wages... leaving WHO to pay their way for them?
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Old 11-04-2019, 08:57 AM
 
Location: NYC
20,550 posts, read 17,688,561 times
Reputation: 25616
Healthcare is a big problem in this country because there's no program to get people healthy. The only program is to keep people under healthcare. That's a guarantee failure and ballooning costs to manage if under universal. Big pharma and insurance do not care about getting people healthy. They only want people to be under their subscription of drugs and coverage. Very little in America is spent on prevention and getting people to get healthy.

In Japan, if you have a BMI over a certain limit you are required to go through mandatory rehab to lose weight or pay additional tax of being over weight. That would never work in the US if we start taxing fat people and how to identify who is obese.

https://nihonscope.com/news-in-japan...gal-fat-japan/

The cost of our healthcare will keep skyrocketing because of obesity and bad choices like smoking, recreational drug use.
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Old 11-04-2019, 10:13 AM
 
Location: San Diego
18,720 posts, read 7,599,790 times
Reputation: 14993
Why do Americans fights for the rights of Billionaires not to pay taxes instead of their own best interest?


Because normal Americans oppose theft, regardless of who's being stolen from.
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