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It helps to put it some perspective. A few pragmatic thoughts:
I'm in my Seventies. My maternal grandmother's first real house was a sod house on the prairie and she remembered twisting tall grass to burn. My paternal grandmother had the first flush toilet in town. DH remembers trotting to the outhouse in the dark of night in below zero weather and there was no toilet paper ever. Not even for company! Heh. He also remembers when they got their first telephone. There were nine of them in a house with five rooms - after they added the addition.
We had no TV until I was ten and then we had one channel. Our fun was mostly self made and we were rarely bored.
I don't think our town ever got much larger than five-hundred people at its largest but we were pretty self-contained. There was someone with a skill for each need and people got along well because we were interdependent on each other. We had no social services, no law enforcement and one doctor for several countries. Doc knew what you could afford and he'd take payment in a hog or chickens or sometimes for free. We took care of the social services and law enforcement ourselves. Much of our commerce was done in trade.
This was all just a blink of an eye ago.
Life has always been dangerous and we've always been a breath way from death. Before penicillin you could get a skin tear working in the barn and be dead from blood poisoning within a week.
It's just that we've forgotten because of the bounteous services we now have. And we've grown to have an expectation that nothing should go wrong, so certain of our self-containment and people being at our disposal at the dial of a number that we are outraged when what seem to be preventable deaths occur.
Maybe the worst that's happened in our confidence is that we no longer need a sense of spiritual security. We've got science "people" for that. (And yet a good deal of what keeps us healthy and happy has a spiritual component to it.) I'm not going to try to explain that. You either get it or you don't and it's not about church.
I'm thinking it wouldn't be the worst thing to have to develop smaller more interdependent communities again. The old days weren't so physically healthy but I think they had a measure of social health that we are missing today.
Today our locus of control is so far from home that we can easily feel helpless.
We are a part of this big cycle of humanity growing and waning and maybe this time we're on a tail end. From a historical point of view we wouldn't be the first. I shudder to think of those poor folks that lived during the ice age.. The plagues. The war torn areas for centuries. Why should we be exempt? The wheel turns.
It helps to put it some perspective. A few pragmatic thoughts:
I'm in my Seventies. My maternal grandmother's first real house was a sod house on the prairie and she remembered twisting tall grass to burn. My paternal grandmother had the first flush toilet in town. DH remembers trotting to the outhouse in the dark of night in below zero weather and there was no toilet paper ever. Not even for company! Heh. He also remembers when they got their first telephone. There were nine of them in a house with five rooms - after they added the addition.
We had no TV until I was ten and then we had one channel. Our fun was mostly self made and we were rarely bored.
I don't think our town ever got much larger than five-hundred people at its largest but we were pretty self-contained. There was someone with a skill for each need and people got along well because we were interdependent on each other. We had no social services, no law enforcement and one doctor for several countries. Doc knew what you could afford and he'd take payment in a hog or chickens or sometimes for free. We took care of the social services and law enforcement ourselves. Much of our commerce was done in trade.
This was all just a blink of an eye ago.
Life has always been dangerous and we've always been a breath way from death. Before penicillin you could get a skin tear working in the barn and be dead from blood poisoning within a week.
It's just that we've forgotten because of the bounteous services we now have. And we've grown to have an expectation that nothing should go wrong, so certain of our self-containment and people being at our disposal at the dial of a number that we are outraged when what seem to be preventable deaths occur.
Fascinating!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar
Maybe the worst that's happened in our confidence is that we no longer need a sense of spiritual security. We've got science "people" for that. (And yet a good deal of what keeps us healthy and happy has a spiritual component to it.) I'm not going to try to explain that. You either get it or you don't and it's not about church.
We likely come from different religions traditions but I agree.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar
I'm thinking it wouldn't be the worst thing to have to develop smaller more interdependent communities again. The old days weren't so physically healthy but I think they had a measure of social health that we are missing today.
Quite true. Life spans are longer but as you point out that may be a mixed blessing from the lack of social and spiritual health.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar
Today our locus of control is so far from home that we can easily feel helpless.
Governor Whitless and Governor Cuomo are worthy exhibits.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar
We are a part of this big cycle of humanity growing and waning and maybe this time we're on a tail end. From a historical point of view we wouldn't be the first. I shudder to think of those poor folks that lived during the ice age.. The plagues. The war torn areas for centuries. Why should we be exempt? The wheel turns.
That's another topic for another day. But we don't have to self-inflict the damage. And yes we're exempt because we have hopefully a level of civilization that past generations and other areas lacked and often still lack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar
Do we have unrealistic expectations?
We need to shoot for things to become bettr, not worse.
Does that mean we never reopen? I know I sound like a "broken record."
I mean, I feel like that word "never" is hyperbole, for what agenda I don't know, but hey...
Of course not:
1) Even if we have to go about 18 months or so, no expert that is saying that is talking about complete and total shutdown for 18 months. They're talking about rolling actions that will be eased and strengthened as needed.
2) If at this point next year we don't either have the vaccine or are at least close, we'll start to say we can't do this forever, open things back up as much as we can, and let the chips fall where they may. But...
3) Both Johnson & Johnson and the Gates-funded group believe they currently have the vaccine. Of course way more tests are still needed, as a dangerous or even an ineffective vaccine unleashed on the general public would do more harm than good.
It helps to put it some perspective. A few pragmatic thoughts:
I'm in my Seventies. My maternal grandmother's first real house was a sod house on the prairie and she remembered twisting tall grass to burn. My paternal grandmother had the first flush toilet in town. DH remembers trotting to the outhouse in the dark of night in below zero weather and there was no toilet paper ever. Not even for company! Heh. He also remembers when they got their first telephone. There were nine of them in a house with five rooms - after they added the addition.
We had no TV until I was ten and then we had one channel. Our fun was mostly self made and we were rarely bored.
I don't think our town ever got much larger than five-hundred people at its largest but we were pretty self-contained. There was someone with a skill for each need and people got along well because we were interdependent on each other. We had no social services, no law enforcement and one doctor for several countries. Doc knew what you could afford and he'd take payment in a hog or chickens or sometimes for free. We took care of the social services and law enforcement ourselves. Much of our commerce was done in trade.
This was all just a blink of an eye ago.
Life has always been dangerous and we've always been a breath way from death. Before penicillin you could get a skin tear working in the barn and be dead from blood poisoning within a week.
It's just that we've forgotten because of the bounteous services we now have. And we've grown to have an expectation that nothing should go wrong, so certain of our self-containment and people being at our disposal at the dial of a number that we are outraged when what seem to be preventable deaths occur.
Maybe the worst that's happened in our confidence is that we no longer need a sense of spiritual security. We've got science "people" for that. (And yet a good deal of what keeps us healthy and happy has a spiritual component to it.) I'm not going to try to explain that. You either get it or you don't and it's not about church.
I'm thinking it wouldn't be the worst thing to have to develop smaller more interdependent communities again. The old days weren't so physically healthy but I think they had a measure of social health that we are missing today.
Today our locus of control is so far from home that we can easily feel helpless.
We are a part of this big cycle of humanity growing and waning and maybe this time we're on a tail end. From a historical point of view we wouldn't be the first. I shudder to think of those poor folks that lived during the ice age.. The plagues. The war torn areas for centuries. Why should we be exempt? The wheel turns.
Right now, people mostly seem to be cooperating. However, the longer these shutdowns go on and the deeper the economic pain gets, people are going to get more frustrated and need to return to work.
I think the major urban areas are going to end up in a worse position with regard to social unrest. Lots of unemployed people in close quarters with greater risk of infection. Longstanding grievances piled on top of virus related problems.
Right now, people mostly seem to be cooperating. However, the longer these shutdowns go on and the deeper the economic pain gets, people are going to get more frustrated and need to return to work.
I think the major urban areas are going to end up in a worse position with regard to social unrest. Lots of unemployed people in close quarters with greater risk of infection. Longstanding grievances piled on top of virus related problems.
I think the economic problems are going to be what really leads to societal problems, states are getting ready to re open in May, and people will see what state our economy is truly in when they get back to work and there is nothing to do.
Or their company will be impacted because some other company they rely on, is still shut down or went out of business, its going to be like dominoes falling.
Don't insult the animals.
We humans have an amazing capacity to either rise to the occasion and persevere, or sink to subhuman status.
As is told in the tale of the two wolves, it's the wolf we feed that determines our destiny.
That's another topic for another day. But we don't have to self-inflict the damage. And yes we're exempt because we have hopefully a level of civilization that past generations and other areas lacked and often still lack.
We need to shoot for things to become bettr, not worse.
Where you and I disagree is that we are exempt. It's a popular viewpoint today. We, individually, are exempt from the rules which apply to others because fill in the blank. I see evidence of it on a small scale every time I'm out and about.
But we're not. Resisting social guidelines and natural forces has consequences no matter how much we try to rationalize they don't apply to us.
So to me it doesn't follow that all of us have to be exempt because of the civil progress we've made.
The larger laws of nature will find their way in spite of humanity's desire to alter them.
Certainly it goes without saying that in my life that fact doesn't translate into shooting for things to become worse. The fact that there are forces at work greater than mine only requires acceptance and realistic thinking. It's a matter of plan and work for the best and prepare for the worst. That way you've got your bases covered.
The fact that many of the things we fear have little predictability and even less security for us can't be a cause of stasis. In truth, over the big picture, it appears they haven't. But civil progress is not a straight line to Nirvana and is more given to fits and starts. There's no reason I can see that because of the progress our generation has made that it should stay written in stone.
Maybe here in the cosmos we are the kid on the beach constructing increasingly more intricate sandcastles and feeling resentful and defeated when the tide comes in? We all need an inner parent who soothes and reassures that tomorrow we can come back and start again with an even better castle.
I'm chuckling a little here. It's an ominous subject to be treating lightly. DH put it in a more Pogo-esque manner: "I think it's time to thin the herd. And this time we (Seniors) might be the ones thinned."
Location: Just transplanted to FL from the N GA mountains
3,997 posts, read 4,154,680 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lodestar
It helps to put it some perspective. A few pragmatic thoughts:
I'm in my Seventies. My maternal grandmother's first real house was a sod house on the prairie and she remembered twisting tall grass to burn. My paternal grandmother had the first flush toilet in town. DH remembers trotting to the outhouse in the dark of night in below zero weather and there was no toilet paper ever. Not even for company! Heh. He also remembers when they got their first telephone. There were nine of them in a house with five rooms - after they added the addition.
We had no TV until I was ten and then we had one channel. Our fun was mostly self made and we were rarely bored.
I don't think our town ever got much larger than five-hundred people at its largest but we were pretty self-contained. There was someone with a skill for each need and people got along well because we were interdependent on each other. We had no social services, no law enforcement and one doctor for several countries. Doc knew what you could afford and he'd take payment in a hog or chickens or sometimes for free. We took care of the social services and law enforcement ourselves. Much of our commerce was done in trade.
This was all just a blink of an eye ago.
Life has always been dangerous and we've always been a breath way from death. Before penicillin you could get a skin tear working in the barn and be dead from blood poisoning within a week.
It's just that we've forgotten because of the bounteous services we now have. And we've grown to have an expectation that nothing should go wrong, so certain of our self-containment and people being at our disposal at the dial of a number that we are outraged when what seem to be preventable deaths occur.
Maybe the worst that's happened in our confidence is that we no longer need a sense of spiritual security. We've got science "people" for that. (And yet a good deal of what keeps us healthy and happy has a spiritual component to it.) I'm not going to try to explain that. You either get it or you don't and it's not about church.
I'm thinking it wouldn't be the worst thing to have to develop smaller more interdependent communities again. The old days weren't so physically healthy but I think they had a measure of social health that we are missing today.
Today our locus of control is so far from home that we can easily feel helpless.
We are a part of this big cycle of humanity growing and waning and maybe this time we're on a tail end. From a historical point of view we wouldn't be the first. I shudder to think of those poor folks that lived during the ice age.. The plagues. The war torn areas for centuries. Why should we be exempt? The wheel turns.
Do we have unrealistic expectations?
Thank you for posting so succinctly what I have been thinking for a while now!
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