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Here in Taiwan the coronavirus pandemic is over. We haven't had a single new case in over a month. Only 7 deaths out of a population of 24 million. Never had a lock down. Schools, restaurants and other businesses all open and operating normally. That despite the fact that we're only 110 miles from China and, in late January, had more COVID-19 cases than any another other country other than China due to the tens of thousands of Taiwanese citizens fleeing China for Taiwan.
The "secret"? 95% of the population has been wearing surgical face masks since the beginning which the government made amply available to everyone for 15 cents U.S., including the White House. That "Great Wall" of face masks repelled everything the coronavirus threw at it.
It’s not a psychological issue, but I realize everyone loves to say that.
It is completely psychological. Suffocation is pretty objective. You cannot suffocate in a cloth mask. But you completely kill your credibility when you go on and on about government overreach and all. And that's fine. As long as you live somewhere where you won't be beaten to the ground by Law Enforcement like that poor sod in NYC you're golden. Most LEO do not like to have laws flagrantly broken right in front of them.
Oh dear. As I already explained, I don't need the WHO or the government, or anyone on a forum who likes to use emotions as an attack - "being a good citizen", as if a mask makes you a good citizen - (I don't fall for that kind of propaganda, you'll have to try that on someone else), to tell me how to be considerate of others if I sneeze or cough. I already cover my face when I cough or sneeze. My mom told me how to do that when I was a little child. I don't need to wear a mask, like someone wears a string on their finger, to remind me to do that.
If you don't cover your mouth and nose every single time you exhale you are part of the problem. With each breath atomized particles of whatever is in your respiratory system are emitted, to settle on your hands to be transferred to everything you touch, to every door you near, every product display you approach, every gas pump you use and every cashier or self checkout station you near.
Using a mask protects everyone who you encounter or follows in your trail; I'd call that being a good citizen.
I am going to be mean and unkind right back at those who state that it is purely psychological if someone has difficulties wearing a mask. For some it can be a matter of just suck it up and do it. But for others who feel a form of perhaps claustrophobia, you think it's a simple flip of a switch and the phobia is gone. If that was true then there would be need for psychologists and psychiatrists to heal disorders.
HOWEVER, for many it is not psychological and is truly physical. Biologically and anatomically some bodies require a larger intake of air for proper oxygen exchange within the lungs. Reduced intake leads to less oxygen in the bloodstream to feed muscles etc. and the body's instinctive reaction is to gasp for more air. This survival instinct is rarely consciously controllable.
Body types that might require more air intake are athletes, large people (not necessarily overweight folks), those who might not have the best posture, those who do physical labor, just to name a few.
. . .Body types that might require more air intake are athletes, large people (not necessarily overweight folks), those who might not have the best posture, those who do physical labor, just to name a few.
The air intake problems of athletes, large people, and people with poor posture is nothing compared to the air intake problems of those who’ve contract Covid-19.
If you don't cover your mouth and nose every single time you exhale you are part of the problem. With each breath atomized particles of whatever is in your respiratory system are emitted, to settle on your hands to be transferred to everything you touch, to every door you near, every product display you approach, every gas pump you use and every cashier or self checkout station you near.
Using a mask protects everyone who you encounter or follows in your trail; I'd call that being a good citizen.
Again with the propaganda about mask wearing = good citizen. Such horse manure. Some people have gone certifiably nuts over a piece of cloth.
As I've said, several times, on this forum, but will repeat for you:
I was already a germaphobe before this stupid virus came around. I've been harassed for years because of it. So let me tell you what that entails:
I don't touch things out in public. I don't touch gas pumps with my bare hands. I don't touch door knobs or handles with my bare hands. I don't touch the pin on the pin pad at checkout, or any ATM, with my bare hands. I have to touch whatever product I choose at the store, and when I'm done with my grocery shopping, after checking out, I park my cart next to the restroom. Why? Because I go in there and wash my hands. They feel dirty after having to touch things that others have touched. And I am not about to put those dirty hands on my steering wheel, or my keys, or my own doorknob at home, or my cupboards, etc.
From there, I bring my stuff home, take it out of the bags, throw the bags away, (except a few that I use to clean up cat litter - which, I would hope that you all wash your hands after cleaning cat litter - who knows with some people), and wipe down every last product with a Clorox wipe....except fruits and vegetables, I wash them in the sink. Meat products, I take them out of their Styrofoam hell, wash my hands, and then put them into containers of my own to freeze them - kills 2 birds with 1 stone - I'm also separating the amount of each package so that I'm not thawing out more meat than I'll be consuming before it goes bad.
Further, unlike so many of you, I don't wear my shoes in the house, and I don't wear my "street clothes" in the house. You will never, ever find me sitting on my couch, or sitting on my bed, or a chair with the clothes I wore outside. Never. You won't find me plodding around my house with the shoes I wore outside. How many times have you done that?
So do not sit there and preach to me about keeping things clean.
As far as being near other people, again, as I've already said, I don't like people being in my space, and I sure as hell do not go up into their space. I'm all for the 6' rule, should have been happening all along, as a courtesy to everyone. I've already been doing it in my life. I didn't need the government to tell me to do that. I did not need the WHO to tell me to do that. I did not need the CDC to tell me to do that.
Speaking of the CDC, I'd like to know why all of you are acting like any of this is a new thing. The CDC tells you, every single flu season, not to touch everything out in public, to wash your hands frequently, to stay away from other people, to stop living like a bunch of disgusting pigs. Everything that your mom told you when you were a tiny child.
And yet, here we are, with all of these people who have to wait until the government, or the WHO, or Dr. Fauci to come out and tell them what they should have been doing all along, at all times. And even now, even now, we still have people who think any of that is "too much", and they're not wiling to do it.
Take your little lectures about "how to stay clean and not live like a repulsive, lazy pig" to someone else. You still haven't even started to touch what I do already, have been doing, already. You wearing a piece of cloth on your face isn't doing jack all.
As I've already said, I've been doing more than most of you are even doing now. I don't need you to tell me how to keep clean. In fact, I've been a "good citizen" (eye roll) when it comes to germs and not spreading them around for a very, very long time, enduring the stupid questions, enduring the stares, enduring the mockery. I did not demand that everyone else do the same. I did this because of an 8th grade science class experiment - and it was very eye opening. I've been like this ever since.
Now, when I go out and do all of this, as I've normally done for decades, no one questions me anymore, no one stares anymore, no one mocks anymore. Now they get it.
....
From there, I bring my stuff home, take it out of the bags, throw the bags away, (except a few that I use to clean up cat litter - which, I would hope that you all wash your hands after cleaning cat litter - who knows with some people), and wipe down every last product with a Clorox wipe....except fruits and vegetables, I wash them in the sink. Meat products, I take them out of their Styrofoam hell, wash my hands, and then put them into containers of my own to freeze them - kills 2 birds with 1 stone - I'm also separating the amount of each package so that I'm not thawing out more meat than I'll be consuming before it goes bad.
...
Wait, wait... Where are you finding Clorox wipes?
We've got TP in the stores again, but not a Clorox wipe to be seen for like the last 2 months around here.
Look, I can appreciate all the things that you are doing, but I can also say that for most people, doing all of those things is going to be harder than wearing a mask. I do some of them, but nowhere near all of them.
And honestly at heart I think that a big part of the problem is this American notion that if everybody is doing a thing, then it's somehow virtuous to NOT do it, just to make a point. "I'm not a sheep, you're a sheep! Neener!" Whatever. In a situation where risk mitigation loses a lot of its effectiveness for every person who refuses to cooperate in a particular environment, the whole "if you're doing what most people think is sensible, then you've drank the Kool-Aid, fallen for the propaganda, you're a conformist sheep!" mindset becomes not so much a cute little disagreement of opinion, and more of a thing that can affect lives.
But by all means. You do you. However I definitely think that if a particular business's management makes the decision that on THEIR PRIVATE PROPERTY you follow that rule or you leave, then you should follow the damn rule, or leave. Take your dollars elsewhere. Do it in a spirit of protest, die mad about it, whatever you gotta do. FWIW? Even as a fairly progressive/liberal person, I supported the right of the bakers to not bake a gay wedding cake, too. Their business, their rules, even if they are stupid. If it's a matter of principle? That is a principle I believe in.
Quote:
Originally Posted by mathlete
Here in Taiwan the coronavirus pandemic is over. We haven't had a single new case in over a month. Only 7 deaths out of a population of 24 million. Never had a lock down. Schools, restaurants and other businesses all open and operating normally. That despite the fact that we're only 110 miles from China and, in late January, had more COVID-19 cases than any another other country other than China due to the tens of thousands of Taiwanese citizens fleeing China for Taiwan.
The "secret"? 95% of the population has been wearing surgical face masks since the beginning which the government made amply available to everyone for 15 cents U.S., including the White House. That "Great Wall" of face masks repelled everything the coronavirus threw at it.
^ This is my point.
Oh, and @JonathanLB (sorry I'm lazy, don't want to go look for another post I am referring to and quote it properly here)...I saw where you said that "they" are saying that cloth masks have to be tight against your nose and mouth...Huh?? No, they do not. They have to not have huge gaps around the edges, but they can be made of a stiffer material that stands out from your nose and mouth, like those cup-looking masks for painting, or the pleated ones made of a stiffer material (like the one I made for myself) that don't cling right up against your nose and mouth at all. What you're talking about isn't necessary.
In fact I don't even go so far as to do the whole 2 layers of fabric, because I'm thinking more along the lines of what we're trying to accomplish here...it really is not filtration of the air, so much as containing the moisture from one's breath and slowing the momentum of that moving air you exhale, so it doesn't jet out several feet from you when you breathe. Let alone coughing or sneezing. If one does THAT with a face covering, AND does their best to stay several feet from other people outside of their own household, that is the level of protection we're shooting for with this, if we aren't all gonna wear surgical masks.
Hell, I've even seen people using those ski snood things, or a bandanna, scarf, or those Middle-Eastern head wraps like my ex brought back from his deployment. There is no need to suffocate yourself.
Honestly feel like if you had the right kind of mask it would not be as bad. I've also found that breathing more slowly helps. If I feel like I cannot breathe I pause for a second and take a deep, slow breath, and then I'm generally fine.
But honestly it sounds a lot like the unpleasant feeling of the warmth and moisture of your own breath is making you THINK that you are suffocating, just like it's easy with waterboarding to trick someone into THINKING that they are drowning, even when they totally are not. The panic response IS psychological. And for most people, it's nowhere as extreme as the waterboarding/drowning panic, so don't think I was drawing an exact parallel at all--I am not. If it were that bad, then no one would be wearing a mask, or they'd all be gagging and retching, as you put it. Clearly it's not an issue for most. But you also said you're staying home...so if that's the case, then why is this even a problem for you?
EDIT: You also said, "I don't have the virus." How the hell do you know that? Have you been 100% isolated from all outside human contact for the entirety of the last month or more? Do you get tested every day? Are you immune to false negatives, if so? I think what you mean is that you don't have any symptoms of the virus, so you don't think that you have it. (That isn't really how this works, in case you missed the memo, which is why people are being asked to take these measures. If no symptoms mean virus free, then it would be much easier to defeat this crisis by just isolating the sick.)
No, we don’t. It’s NOT easy! I would rather try to climb Mt. Everest, so it’s in fact quite impossible. If it’s easy for you, go for it! It’s apolitical to me, I can’t breathe whatsoever in a mask. Having cloth touch my nose and mouth and cover up any fresh supply of oxygen doesn’t allow me to breathe. I start hyperventilating, gag, and then can’t breathe at all. It’s physically not possible for me and I’m not sacrificing my oxygen supply and life to maybe save yours - but since I don’t have the virus, and have just stayed home, I’d be wearing it for nothing anyway. Not going to happen. I am sick and tired of people acting like “it’s no big deal” when I think it’s the biggest deal there is. If you can’t breathe, you can’t survive, so yeah that’s a pretty big deal.
Politically, I’m excited whenever I see people not wearing masks because I know it means they’re not drinking the Kool Aid. If you’re sick, stay home. If you’re at risk, stay home. But Fox News hasn’t “downplayed” the virus at all! They’ve actually overreported it just less so than CNN, which relies on fear mongering. The mortality rate is pathetically tiny, especially among healthy people, and absolutely no reason to lock down anything. It has been used for political purposes to empower these moron liberal governors who have abused our Constitution and their own powers. They’re little tyrants all of them and should be removed from office.
People who wear masks aren’t “drinking the Kool Aid.” Do you even understand that metaphor?
So you have a problem with anxiety. You hyperventilate with a mask. I have a degree of claustrophobia, but I manage to wear a mask. If you never go out, then wearing/not wearing a mask is a moot point for you. But if you ever do go out, you should be thankful for others who protect YOU by wearing a mask.
I don’t watch FOX, but apparently you do. I’ll accept your correction about their coverage. I recommend the AP for neutral news coverage. Their app is free. I personally stay away from FOX and CNN coverages which are personality and ideology driven.
I think you might benefit from learning to wear a mask. You might need to at some point.
The “tiny mortality” rate seems more concerning when it strikes you or a loved one. Points of view tend to change then, you know?
But honestly it sounds a lot like the unpleasant feeling of the warmth and moisture of your own breath is making you THINK that you are suffocating, just like it's easy with waterboarding to trick someone into THINKING that they are drowning, even when they totally are not. The panic response IS psychological. And for most people, it's nowhere as extreme as the waterboarding/drowning panic, so don't think I was drawing an exact parallel at all--I am not. If it were that bad, then no one would be wearing a mask, or they'd all be gagging and retching, as you put it. Clearly it's not an issue for most. But you also said you're staying home...so if that's the case, then why is this even a problem for you?
And surgeons, dentists, painters, construction workers, etc. often wear face masks for hours while performing detailed work requiring concentration. Like with anything, wearing a mask requires a bit of adaptation. No one loves it, but we're doing it for the greater good.
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