Should Covid-19 Vaccination be Mandatory?

[Oklazona Bound]

Originally Posted by in_newengland

I don't think it should be mandatory but I think it should be encouraged. However, if I get on a plane to Europe and I have been vaccinated, would I have to worry? Wouldn't I be immune?

Not immune but up to 90% less likely to get covid.

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by RationalExpectations

For certain things, yes.

Off the top of my head,

• If you wish to work in a restaurant, yes, you must be vaccinated - and tested for antibodies on a periodic basis.
• If you wish to eat in a sit-down public restaurant, yes, you must have a current vaccination.
• If you wish to work in retail where you come in contact with the public - say, a grocery store or big-box store, then yes, you must be vaccinated - and tested for antibodies on a periodic basis.
• If you wish to be a customer by walking in to a retail establishment, yes, you must be vaccinated.
• If you work in an environment where you come in contact with the public - say, hotels, resorts & casinos - yes, you must be vaccinated - and tested for antibodies on a periodic basis.
• If you wish to fly commercial, yes, you must be vaccinated.
• If you work in schools, yes, you must be vaccinated.
• If you wish to attend public schools in person, yes, you must be vaccinated.
• If you work for an airline, yes, you must be vaccinated.
• If you work for a cruise ship, yes, you must be vaccinated.
• If you wish to be a passenger on a cruise ship, yes, you must be vaccinated.

Etc.

These were largely my ideas. Maybe not retail (I haven't used contactless pick-up for shopping and think it is only good if you are sick) but you will need to vaccinate for a number of locations. That said, I see these coming into play Juneish. I figured that using private business like airlines, cruise lines, etc.; that people would accept it. But surprisingly no, they don't and instead think that individual liberties trump the business owners. Mind you a number are the ones that are fine with business owners saying they wont serve gays due to religious objections.

I work in a school and will be in the third wave of my state's immunizations. It is healthcare workers first, then the elderly and I think those with other comorbidities second. It can change before then, but this is my current understanding.

One issue I see, is those that have medical issues that prevent them from getting live vaccines like my father, who has psoriatic rheumatoid arthritis.

[suzy_q2010]

Originally Posted by k350

I though would not call this an "anti-vax" movement, because it is the same terminology used to describe people who are against all vaccines.

This vaccine is new, it is for a virus that is new, uses a new technique, and there are zero medium and long term knowledge over the side effects, hell, they are not even certain how long the immunization is good for, and still have not figured out why people are getting infect more than once.

All of this rightfully so leads many people to be pretty wary of getting this injected into them. That does not make them an anti-vaxxer, that makes them wanting more information and studies and long term impact done so they can see and be comfortable with getting such a vaccine.

In light of the above, I would say "no", it should not be mandatory.

The Pfizer and Moderna trials had enough participants to show whether the risks of their vaccines are greater than the risks of the disease, and both of them are showing strong safety signals.

Originally Posted by blisterpeanuts

There are suspicions, including credible testimony by whistleblowers inside China, that the pandemic was and is much more serious and widespread in China than the Communist government has let on.

The Lancet can publish all the political bloviation it wants but that doesn't make it right. Political opinions are not "peer reviewed". For that matter, Lancet really stepped in it a few months ago by publishing a flawed study knocking hydroxychloroquine, which they later had to retract.

A vaccine (or two, or three) is a great idea, and I hope to take one once it's generally available. 95% effectiveness sounds pretty good, especially when combined with the already high 99.4% survivability rate.

But no, it shouldn't be mandatory, and good luck trying to enforce that! Polio is one thing - you absolutely don't want a polio outbreak - it's a horrible thought. But novel coronavirus c-19 is increasingly survivable and treatable, really not a death sentence like everyone thought back in March.

What makes you think a polio outbreak would be worse than the current coronavirus outbreak?

Originally Posted by coschristi

Absolutely not.

Immunogenomics. Vaccinomics.

Over 15% of the population is genetically predisposed to adverse reactions to vaccines. It would be great if we could be screened prior to immunizations and be medically exempted based on our genotypes but despite having the knowledge to do this, it is not being done in preference for "vaccine uptake metrics " (see section 7)

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2831634/

Due to uptake metrics being the priority for public health authorities, one size fits all vaccines are given to everyone, at risk or not & if your number is up & you sustain a serious injury; the vaccine manufacturers are exempt from liability. The greater good. Are you really willing to be an acceptable loss? The sacrificial lamb for the herd?

When I say a "serious injury", I don't mean a fever and a sore arm. I am talking about demyelination diseases that will put you in a wheelchair. Neuroinflammation that disables the Microglia cells in your brain. Do you know what happens when the Microglia cells stop synaptic pruning in the developing brain? Autism. Do you know what happens when the Microglia stop pruning the plaque in the aging brain? Alzheimer's. Do you know your genotypes? Do you know if you carry the genes that will respond atypically to vaccination & cause the neuroinflammation that will disable you for life?

Do you know what your HLA gene complex status is? Your MTHFR genotypes are? How about your Cytokine response genes; the Interleukin, or IL-1 through IL-18 genotypes? Because I do. I spent months self decoding my raw DNA tests to find out that nobody who is my biological child should ever have been vaccinated. A simple genetic calculator could have solved that but one doesn't exist, because if it did, people could be proactive and screen themselves for genetic predisposition to adverse vaccine reactions. But then we would be medically exempt from vaccines and that would interfere with uptake metrics.

So my first daughter died less than 24 hours after her 4 months vaccines and my youngest son is permanently brain damaged from his 2 year old vaccines. The vaccine manufacturers are exempt from liability & I haven't worked for 14 years now to be my disabled child's caregiver. Do you think the "herd" has ever paid their respects to my child's ultimate sacrifice? Do you think the herd ever offers to pay my bills or help me care for my son? You don't. They don't. They won't be there for you either.

You want a mandatory vaccine you need to do two things:

-Pre screen every person prior to vaccination for genetic predisposition to adverse vaccine reactions & medically exempt those who are at risk, from vaccination.

-Restore liability to vaccine manufacturers for vaccine injury, so that if you are injured, you can be compensated.

There is no genetic test that will determine whether an individual will have a serious adverse reaction to a vaccine.

Your daughter had SIDS and your son has autism. Neither are caused by vaccines. Vaccines do not cause Alzheimer's disease.

We have a no fault compensation program for the very rare people who have documented adverse reactions to vaccines.

[mkpunk]

Originally Posted by suzy_q2010

The Pfizer and Moderna trials had enough participants to show whether the risks of their vaccines are greater than the risks of the disease, and both of them are showing strong safety signals.



What makes you think a polio outbreak would be worse than the current coronavirus outbreak?



There is no genetic test that will determine whether an individual will have a serious adverse reaction to a vaccine.

Your daughter had SIDS and your son has autism. Neither are caused by vaccines. Vaccines do not cause Alzheimer's disease.

We have a no fault compensation program for the very rare people who have documented adverse reactions to vaccines.

I was half thinking that. I think vaccine injuries are overstated. Not that they don't happen, but many aren't reported because it is hard to truly prove and most Americans don't seek the doctor unless they have a routine medical check or health issue. Few go to the doctors for anything until it is serious.

[Rachel NewYork]

Since there appears to be nothing new to add to this debate, this thread has run its course and it's time to put it to rest. Thank you to all who participated.