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This is a good post and point
rugged individuality
Has mutated in high pay advanced degree employment
It worked for some but not most
Having said that the opposite end of the pendulum swing is equally odious
the hero status of the passionate entrepreneur or the permanent college student taking one unit of body building a semester is a false status
Poverty and unemployment is not a privileged status it’s a cancer
Passionate entrepreneur is not a profession it’s an unemployment category
Many of these false role models were created due to the off shoring and out resourcing of America’s blue collar identity
We simply saw ourselves as future white collar big shots and turned our backs on the roles of our grandparents who for the most part were blue collar
46% of Americans work not because the rest are lazy but because the jobs have been off shored or out resourced to cheap foreign labor
I don't usually agree with you, but you maybe right about this.
I disagree. It needs to go to the people with:
A) the highest risk of contracting the disease (first responders, the medical community, nursing home workers, workers who have a lot of contact with the public, etc. and,
B) those with the highest risk of becoming really sick or dying from it (those with co-morbidities, those over age 65, those in nursing homes and/or hospitals
I'm in my early 60's, retired, live alone, and am in decent health, so if I control my behavior correctly (which I have), then my risk is low enough such that I can wait until those I listed above are vaccinated. I should be one of the last groups to get it, because I can minimize my risk. With respect to those that are refusing the vaccine, they have every right to do so, providing they understand they are not only putting themselves at risk, but they are extending the time it will take to snuff it out from the population. I tend not to count my chickens before hatching, but I'm hopeful nonetheless.
A minor point, but from the original post, the statement "What is really troubling me is that even in a pandemic that has claimed the lives of over 300,000 Americans, a toll exceeding that of World War II", is not accurate. About 450,000 Americans died in WWII, similar to the number of British. By comparison, about twenty million Soviets and about twenty million Chinese died in the war, most of whom were civilians (I think about five million Germans and four million Japanese were killed, but the death toll among other countries in Europe and Asia were also horrendous, with the total worldwide clocking in at around sixty million).
Victor Davis Hanson has done some excellent lectures / videos on WWII, and to paraphrase from one, "WWII was unique in that the losing side (the Axis Powers) killed many more people than were killed among their own populace. If there's one takeaway from WWII, it is that the Germans and Japanese were extremely vicious and efficient killers".
... But patience only seemed to last 2 or 3 months at most, and then people just decided to ignore the emergency. Now we have 10X as many cases as we did in the spring and air travel is now almost 50% of normal. The sense of urgency and crisis seems to have been lost and the individualist belief system has been re-instated. ...
There can not be a “sense of urgency and crisis” when the relative harm to be avoided, and the relative harm of measures of mitigation, are so unevenly distributed. Collectivist or communitarian ideas carry merit when there is reason to regard everyone being comparably affected. Some will be strong sometimes, but weaker later; and vice versa. We use tax dollars to fund public schools, because most of us once upon a time attended such schools. Similarly, we use tax dollars to fund old-age pensions (Social Security), because most of us will eventually reach that age, and many will come to depend on such income, at an age when they’re no longer able to work. So, the fact that some pay now, while others receive now, is regarded as being more or less equitable, and essential for constituting what pleases us to call “civilization”.
But there are limits. For example, if public school were free only to those who are deemed to be of modest means, but nevertheless everyone’s tax dollars are collected… or if the Social Security eligibility age were to be so raised, say to age 80, that very few people would ever attain that age, and so, the overwhelming majority would pay into a fund that benefits only a very few… and so on; well, in such case it would be regarded, with good reason, that the sacrifices are not equitable, and that eloquent call for shared sacrifice is a sham and a ruse. What it builds isn’t “civilization”, but a grotesque pyramid scheme.
In the coronavirus emergency, it is demonstrably the case, that some segments of the population, are very much more harmed and at risk, than others. If the ‘rona were permanent, it might be argued, that eventually even the young will become old, and by then, will be just as vulnerable. Then a shutdown or other costly measure of mitigation, would be like Social Security: everyone pays, only the old collect, but ultimately most will in turn become old; so then, ultimately most will eventually collect. Instead we have a temporary emergency that robs kids of in-class education and young-adults of in-person socializing, so that, as was put earlier in this thread, grandma can stay healthy. The upshot is that all of society is contorting itself in a particular hardship and self-limitation, for the benefit largely of… grandma. That seems to me, to be neither individualist nor collectivist, but an allocation of priorities that is, to say the least, questionable.
In the coronavirus emergency, it is demonstrably the case, that some segments of the population, are very much more harmed and at risk, than others. If the ‘rona were permanent, it might be argued, that eventually even the young will become old, and by then, will be just as vulnerable. Then a shutdown or other costly measure of mitigation, would be like Social Security: everyone pays, only the old collect, but ultimately most will in turn become old; so then, ultimately most will eventually collect. Instead we have a temporary emergency that robs kids of in-class education and young-adults of in-person socializing, so that, as was put earlier in this thread, grandma can stay healthy. The upshot is that all of society is contorting itself in a particular hardship and self-limitation, for the benefit largely of… grandma. That seems to me, to be neither individualist nor collectivist, but an allocation of priorities that is, to say the least, questionable.
Another thing I'd like to add. The lockdowns enforcement is extremely unbalanced. Your average hard-working Joe Blow get trashed for having a get-together with 4 friends, because "you're gonna kill someone, you selfish prick!!!" But crowds of maskless BLM/Antifa protesters get celebrated by the same politicians who put in the lockdowns. Even when both groups are doing the same thing: getting together. Same with defining "essential" business: How the hell is a weed dispensary "essential", but a barber shop is not? When weed is a drug, plain and simple, while unkempt hair easily becomes a hygiene issue. Also, the lockdowns happened during an election year, and were the prerogative of the Left. Which meant there's a possibility they were intended to get He Who Shall Not Be Named in hot water, since he vehemently opposed them. And when there's an ulterior motive, it's not a true emergency.
So, very quickly, the gig was up. The emperor was naked. The cat was out of the bag. That's why not everyone took this spiky virus "seriously". I cut off contact with at least 15 Facebook friends and 1 real friend over this.
Last edited by MillennialUrbanist; 01-12-2021 at 05:03 AM..
I disagree. It needs to go to the people with:
A) the highest risk of contracting the disease (first responders, the medical community, nursing home workers, workers who have a lot of contact with the public, etc. and,
B) those with the highest risk of becoming really sick or dying from it (those with co-morbidities, those over age 65, those in nursing homes and/or hospitals
I'm in my early 60's, retired, live alone, and am in decent health, so if I control my behavior correctly (which I have), then my risk is low enough such that I can wait until those I listed above are vaccinated. I should be one of the last groups to get it, because I can minimize my risk. With respect to those that are refusing the vaccine, they have every right to do so, providing they understand they are not only putting themselves at risk, but they are extending the time it will take to snuff it out from the population. I tend not to count my chickens before hatching, but I'm hopeful nonetheless.
A minor point, but from the original post, the statement "What is really troubling me is that even in a pandemic that has claimed the lives of over 300,000 Americans, a toll exceeding that of World War II", is not accurate. About 450,000 Americans died in WWII, similar to the number of British. By comparison, about twenty million Soviets and about twenty million Chinese died in the war, most of whom were civilians (I think about five million Germans and four million Japanese were killed, but the death toll among other countries in Europe and Asia were also horrendous, with the total worldwide clocking in at around sixty million).
Victor Davis Hanson has done some excellent lectures / videos on WWII, and to paraphrase from one, "WWII was unique in that the losing side (the Axis Powers) killed many more people than were killed among their own populace. If there's one takeaway from WWII, it is that the Germans and Japanese were extremely vicious and efficient killers".
First responders and so-called and arbitrarily-determined “essential” workers will have less chance of contacting Covid if everyone is vaccinated. The insane phasing and classification schemes are wasting time and killing people. Everyone is essential. Just put the thing out there and go straight from production to arm jabs without all this collectivist bureaucratic interference and embargo.
I have wondered about this. When the swine virus (I think that was the one.) it was first come, first serve. I remember there being a few large gathering places, and people lining up to get it. I've wondered why the same hasn't been done for this vaccine.
(And I'm not implying anything, or insinuating conspiracy, or anything like that. I've just really wondered why it's not being done like that.)
Different president, different administration doing the "planning". Also, i can't remember if for swine flu deaths were as skewed to specific ages and pops as covid so a different strategy needed.
You live in NH that #46 for total number of cases, and is reporting approximately 50% of the National Average for both cases and deaths per 1M. Of course the hospitals are not overcrowded....
NYC put five times the capacity of the navy ship into the Javits Center. Gimme a break.....
Keep them damn palm trees outta New England.....
When and how would you know and be satisfied that all the facts had been presented?
The one thing I've learned from the past year is how meaningless facts are. I don't dispute the importance of facts but I've witnessed too many abuses of facts by all people, selecting the facts they prefer to fit their narrative and ignoring the facts that didn't. Or not questioning the source of facts. Or treating conjecture and opinion as facts. The American media is particularly horrendous in spinning facts and rejecting inconvenient facts as fake only for it to be later repudiated.
It's come to the point that I'm automatically skeptical when I hear someone shriek "but the facts! Just look at the facts! Listen to the facts! Guided by facts!"
It's as of the old quote "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" has now become "Lies, damned lies, and facts."
The one thing I've learned from the past year is how meaningless facts are. I don't dispute the importance of facts but I've witnessed too many abuses of facts by all people, selecting the facts they prefer to fit their narrative and ignoring the facts that didn't. Or not questioning the source of facts. Or treating conjecture and opinion as facts. The American media is particularly horrendous in spinning facts and rejecting inconvenient facts as fake only for it to be later repudiated.
It's come to the point that I'm automatically skeptical when I hear someone shriek "but the facts! Just look at the facts! Listen to the facts! Guided by facts!"
It's as of the old quote "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" has now become "Lies, damned lies, and facts."
The reason for this is a lack of critical thinking skills. Logic, reason, and philosophy should be taught EVERY year K-12. We have a population of dummies.
Last edited by Rachel NewYork; 01-12-2021 at 09:54 AM..
Reason: Substituted "dummies" in place of "retards." Please don't use that word on this forum. Thank you.
The one thing I've learned from the past year is how meaningless facts are. I don't dispute the importance of facts but I've witnessed too many abuses of facts by all people, selecting the facts they prefer to fit their narrative and ignoring the facts that didn't. Or not questioning the source of facts. Or treating conjecture and opinion as facts. The American media is particularly horrendous in spinning facts and rejecting inconvenient facts as fake only for it to be later repudiated.
It's come to the point that I'm automatically skeptical when I hear someone shriek "but the facts! Just look at the facts! Listen to the facts! Guided by facts!"
It's as of the old quote "Lies, damned lies, and statistics" has now become "Lies, damned lies, and facts."
Ok, facts are important but meaningless. Still trying to wrap my head around that one......
If you've only learned in the last year that some people use facts selectively, you still have a long way to go..
I believe the key issue is the fact that while Americans like to think we are the bastions of democracy, people feel the government is "them" and not "us". The common person is highly disempowered for a a number of reasons. If the US were truly a representative democracy that would be much less of an issue. When you only elect 1 of 435 representatives (and due to gerrymandering you really don't get much of choice, most races are largely predetermined), 2 senators and that's it unless you count the indirectly directed president towards which your vote counts as 3/538 if you live in a state with an average population and a purple state. We all know money and special interests pay a key role in who even gets to run and then what issues get on the agenda in Washington. In addition the supreme court has been given a highly active role in legislation and none of us gets any role whatsoever in how they get chosen. The fact that all of them study law at Harvard tells you how distanced they are from the common person. The states are there own kind of mess. We also have seen very clearly how the relationship between the states and the federal government is byzantine and dysfunctional. The overlapping jurisdictions and lack of any true unified systems have become alarmingly evident during this covid and political crisis.
I currently reside in Norway, which is also a country of strong individualists, but people here very much feel the government is theirs and have a lot more buy in on the decisions being made. The government is a coalition from many parties so any decision requires extensive discussion and consensus. The difference is attitudes towards government and the efficiency and effectiveness of the US vs Norway is pronounced.
In my opinion the US needs a major political overhaul but clearly that isn't going to happen. The social contract needs a reboot if people are once again going to feel that "we the people" and "a government of the people, for the people and by the people" and "with justice for all" has any relevance. You can only have a government for the rich and their corporations, paid for and fought for by the people and of the entitled elite for so long before things fall apart as we've seen this past year.
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When weed is a drug, plain and simple, while unkempt hair easily becomes a hygiene issue. Also, the lockdowns happened during an election year, and were the prerogative of the Left. Which meant there's a possibility they were intended to get He Who Shall Not Be Named in hot water, since he vehemently opposed them. And when there's an ulterior motive, it's not a true emergency.
