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1) For the purpose of this discussion, any ideas must be implementable currently in the real world. No science fiction solutions , no theories that might come true in 10-15 years, however plausible. The technology necessary must currently exist, and we must currently have the materials and resources to do it today. The point is what can we do today . No cold fusion, no dilithium crystals.
2) Any ideas must not cause economic crises . While some economic pain is inevitable , the ideas cannot cause economic disasters and a huge disruption of our economic system. We aren't going to put half the country on universal basic income when we make them unemployed and tax the remaining half and corporations at 70% to pay for it. Ideas have to be real and workable.
3) Any ideas must keep the energy rights of citizens intact. By this I mean that we cannot limit the basic functionality of life . Businesses can't be told they can only operate 4 hrs a day to conserve energy. Homes and businesses cannot be subject to scheduled blackouts, days with no energy use, etc. Businesses have to operate largely normally, people have to earn a living, people have to be able to heat and cool their homes, make hot water, cook, have lighting, etc. This doesn't mean that Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos have to be allowed to use as much energy as a small town, but the basic functions of life have to go on. No planned blackouts between midnight and 6 ,etc . This wouldn't limit voluntary blackouts, presumably based on customer incentives, but any such things would have to be voluntary. This also would not limit restricting overuse . I don't want to come up with ideas in this post, but as one example maybe car dealerships don't have to be allowed to light up acres of property to daylight levels all night, as long as their basic ability to sell cars isn't infringed upon.
The right to own vehicles can also not be curtailed. If a family needs 1 car for working dad, 1 for working mom, and 1 for the older teenager to take younger siblings to school and back and then go to after school job, then they get 3 cars , no questions asked. Again, this doesn't mean that they need the right to own 3 huge Humvees that get 10 MPG , but they need 3 vehicles that will get them where they have to go and back. And no limits on when these vehicles can be used, no "no driving" hours.
4) All ideas must be ones that would likely stand up to constitutional challenge. I'm not trying to get too technical with this one, just saying we cannot turn the US into a totalitarian China to achieve the solution. We must assume that obviously unconstitutional ideas would be ruled unconstitutional. **************
So you have the power now. What are the solutions?
The four conditions that you have outlined preclude just about every possible solution, which is fine with me. There may be some human impact on climate but, aside from UHI (urban heat island) effect it is truly minor. Let me explain.
The restrictions we have undergone as a result of the Covid-19 Pandemic are a dress rehearsal for what would be needed to reduce man-made climate change. They have largely wrecked the economy, education, culture and entertainment. See Are we turning into animals, courtesy of Covid-19? Excerpt:
Quote:
Originally Posted by jbgusa
Much of what has made human society distinct from the animal kingdom comes from the socializing and collective experience of enjoying music and visual art. We don’t know why painting started, but it started on the walls of the caves. Doubtless cave people got together to admire those paintings. More recently, artists have created great works of art, by Michelangelo, Picasso, and others.
Live performance music is another collectively civilizing experience. From festivals such as Woodstock to the folk coffeehouses, in other venues, music is designed to be enjoyed in groups. The presence of applause or lack of applause shape what musicians do.
Religion is another such shaper of socialization. I cannot imagine the cheerlessness of a world without weddings, Bar or Bat Mitzvahs, confirmations, Christmas Mass, the Hajj in Mecca, and other such events. In short, humans are gregarious species. We need people.
Electric automobiles have been embraced as a panacea. Right now we are facing a chip shortage as a major obstacle to building any automobiles. The electricity has to be generated and coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear are off-limits. For wind, wait till you hear the howls of the wealthy when their pastoral mountain views and seaside vistas are full of windmills. Solar panels are not clean to produce or dispose of. In short any solution is a catastrophe in the making, as against a hazard and panic that is speculative.
Ultimately if you get it down to the very root of the cause of pollution that is causing global warming it’s from the population on earth. Now who would I be to play God? Nobody. And I know it’s a very sensitive subject but in the long run the only thing that’s going to control overall consumption and pollution is population control. I would work with other world leaders and all people of the world to come up with a viable long-term sustainable plan over the next 100 years to reduce world population.
Not by harming people, but by controlling how many new lives come into this earth.
If you really want to get down to it, again who am I to say who can and can’t have a child. Nobody. But that really is the only solution. One of two things will continue to happen without population control. We will reach a point where some kind of disaster, disease, war, will come about and do it for us, or we will reach a point where in the world is basically unlivable and then it will reset itself. There’s really no escaping one of those two scenarios over the next 100 years or so.
Ultimately if you get it down to the very root of the cause of pollution that is causing global warming it’s from the population on earth. Now who would I be to play God? Nobody. And I know it’s a very sensitive subject but in the long run the only thing that’s going to control overall consumption and pollution is population control. I would work with other world leaders and all people of the world to come up with a viable long-term sustainable plan over the next 100 years to reduce world population.
Not by harming people, but by controlling how many new lives come into this earth.
If you really want to get down to it, again who am I to say who can and can’t have a child. Nobody. But that really is the only solution. One of two things will continue to happen without population control. We will reach a point where some kind of disaster, disease, war, will come about and do it for us, or we will reach a point where in the world is basically unlivable and then it will reset itself. There’s really no escaping one of those two scenarios over the next 100 years or so.
Good early post and welcome to CD. That is what it comes down to.
I believe the other solutions are designed to punish successful people and countries. And many leaders believe in self-punishment for their countries, even as they jet around in private jets telling the world how virtuous they are.
We set a great example for them to emulate. And the U.S. is still FAR AND AWAY the #1 per capita emitter. Per capita China is half of what we are despite 3.5x as many people, and India is about 1/7th.
what were our relative emissions (because the tech has improved over the last 50-80 years, yes?) when we were the same % industrialized as India and China?
I sudpect that Chibese people don't actually like living in that crud. Who would? They are signatories to Paris, so at least they have made some paper commitments.
We're not the boss of China so it's not like we can bully them into doing anything. But I'm optimistic that most people around the world want a cleaner Earth, not dirtier.
what % of the world's population lives in truly developed countries that are doing anything to measurably lessen pollution, and what % lives in China, India, and the rest?
....................................The electricity has to be generated and coal, natural gas, oil and nuclear are off-limits. For wind, wait till you hear the howls of the wealthy when their pastoral mountain views and seaside vistas are full of windmills. Solar panels are not clean to produce or dispose of. In short any solution is a catastrophe in the making, as against a hazard and panic that is speculative.
Wealthy people do NOT howl.
They whisper.
President Biden just killed TWO off-shore wind projects in view of the wealthy.
On the other hand.....in eastern Oregon and Washington we are looking at ONE MILLION acres of endangered shrub steppe habitat being destroyed by Industrial Wind Areas.
But hey, just a bunch of Mexicans, Indians, and Republicans living out there!!!
President Biden just killed TWO off-shore wind projects in view of the wealthy.
On the other hand.....in eastern Oregon and Washington we are looking at ONE MILLION acres of endangered shrub steppe habitat being destroyed by Industrial Wind Areas.
But hey, just a bunch of Mexicans, Indians, and Republicans living out there!!!
The point is they get their way. They can afford the electric cars and before that $5.999 for gasoline. They can get around by private jet which us plebes cannot.
"Natural" climate change doesn't happen within 100 years. More like a couple thousand at least.
But no matter. I just hope you're willing to fork over the disaster relief funds out of your taxes. I'll be one of the refugees. My town is ground zero to be the next Paradise, CA. I'll be applying for all the refugee aid and disaster relief available after my house burns down. Thanks in advance.
so what are you, and what is your town, doing to mitigate the risk?
This is an old argument from the 1960s-70s: It's unfair that we don't allow the Third World to go through the Industrial Revolution like we did, because we're past that, we're rich and in charge, and we don't want them messing up the Earth.
The thing is, they won't have to. All that old technology, like coal-burning steam engines and internal combustion engines without catalytic converters and factories spewing nasty smoke and fumes, is now out of date. The Third World can jump right to battery-powered cars and solar hot water and reduced emission factories. They can use our water treatment tech instead of dumping raw sewage.
It's true that we cut way back on our carbon emissions by simply offshoring our factories. That's a very strong argument to bring back the factories to our shores, and impose strict pollution controls and green energy requirements. Products will cost 2-3 times more, but we'll be putting our money where our mouths are.
seems so obvious and simple.
unless we have them start with Model T's and bellowing smokestacks.
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