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Populations decline in any country with a socialist insecurity system. Why? Because it relies on the lie that your retirement will be funded by taxing "other people's children."
One could easily argue that capitalism promotes population decline. Kids just don't make sense in the equation of maximizing profit as they're unnecessary costs. Education, child care, food, etc. are all expensive.
But I believe that blaming socialism or capitalism, or a mixed economy system as seen in most developed countries including the US and those of Europe, is a simplistic and inaccurate conclusion.
One could easily argue that capitalism promotes population decline. Kids just don't make sense in the equation of maximizing profit as they're unnecessary costs. Education, child care, food, etc. are all expensive.
But I believe that blaming socialism or capitalism, or a mixed economy system as seen in most developed countries including the US and those of Europe, is a simplistic and inaccurate conclusion.
Thank you. As I said, 'socialism' has nothing to do with it. People are a lot smarter these days about family planning, far less gullible to the procreation demands of religious poobahs, AND we have the blessing of modern birth control to make small families a reality. The cost of living makes it dreadfully hard to have a family these days, a 'triumph' of unfettered capitalism and a wealth gap that's been growing for 40 years.
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Thank you. As I said, 'socialism' has nothing to do with it. People are a lot smarter these days about family planning, far less gullible to the procreation demands of religious poobahs, AND we have the blessing of modern birth control to make small families a reality. The cost of living makes it dreadfully hard to have a family these days, a 'triumph' of unfettered capitalism and a wealth gap that's been growing for 40 years.
Ahem - what do you think has been boosting the COST?
Hint: In 1910, the Federal Tax per capita was 0.83% of the GNP. (no socialism)
In 2022, the Federal bite was 25.5% of the GDP.
Aggregate spending / taxes take 44.4% of the GDP.
(Any deficit spending is a tax increase, collected in the future)
Working for 5+ months out of the year for gubmint will put a serious crimp in one's ability to support a family.
. . . .
Though it is a popular pastime to "blame capitalism," the fact that the official definition is the private ownership of the means of production - an endowed right. Which excludes corporations, artificial persons, bankers / usurers, underwriters, and any one else that needs government permission to exist and own. Though they call themselves "capitalists" that is inaccurate. In reality, such entities prey on real capitalists ("owners").
A farmer who owns his farm is a real capitalist.
A farmer in hock to the bank is a victim of fake capitalists.
. . . .
● Federal spending, per capita : $18,090.2 (percentage of GDP: 25.5%)
● State spending, per capita : $ 6,931.7 (percentage of GDP: 9.8%)
● Local spending, per capita : $ 6,487.7 (percentage of GDP: 9.1%)
Summed up, combined government spending takes (approx) 44.4% of the GDP.
Socialist Government will "tax us to death."
Remember, anything that government gives, must be taken from someone else - minus a cut for the management.
Ahem - what do you think has been boosting the COST?
Hint: In 1910, the Federal Tax per capita was 0.83% of the GNP. (no socialism)
In 2022, the Federal bite was 25.5% of the GDP.
Aggregate spending / taxes take 44.4% of the GDP.
(Any deficit spending is a tax increase, collected in the future)
Working for 5+ months out of the year for gubmint will put a serious crimp in one's ability to support a family.
. . . .
Though it is a popular pastime to "blame capitalism," the fact that the official definition is the private ownership of the means of production - an endowed right. Which excludes corporations, artificial persons, bankers / usurers, underwriters, and any one else that needs government permission to exist and own. Though they call themselves "capitalists" that is inaccurate. In reality, such entities prey on real capitalists ("owners").
A farmer who owns his farm is a real capitalist.
A farmer in hock to the bank is a victim of fake capitalists.
. . . .
● Federal spending, per capita : $18,090.2 (percentage of GDP: 25.5%)
● State spending, per capita : $ 6,931.7 (percentage of GDP: 9.8%)
● Local spending, per capita : $ 6,487.7 (percentage of GDP: 9.1%)
Summed up, combined government spending takes (approx) 44.4% of the GDP.
Socialist Government will "tax us to death."
Remember, anything that government gives, must be taken from someone else - minus a cut for the management.
Probably all true. Let's just assume you have done all your homework.
But how does it explain the drop in global population - countries like China, Russia, South Korea, South Africa, and Brazil are experiencing precipitous declines in fertility rates that is now decades long. Those countries are far removed from the problems in the US, but they are all either declining in population or soon will be.
It takes 20 years to make a 20 year-old person. So we know almost precisely what the population will be in 2043, and the trend is down, everywhere.
If we're really going to get into it - there are reasons aside from financial reasons to not have kids these days. Being a parent today (if you have any standards) is pretty complex. There are many more rules, laws, expectations and judgment from others involved in having kids. It seems like by todays rules parents are expected to keep kids constantly engaged, entertained and of course well behaved until they are in college. Kids don't seem to just play outside the way they used to...there's way more disorders and diagnoses today than ever before from allergies to mental issues. I truly think some people have kids because they want a baby....and then don't really think about everything else once that baby stage is over. They think they can mold their kids into whatever they wish.
some people have become more aware of how difficult having kids can be...which is why people have less. In addition to being expensive you never know what kind of kid you might end up with. Just because you yourself were a certain way does not necessarily mean your kid will be the same way either.
I also think parents think that once their kids make it through high school they are good to go if nothing bad has happened and I kind of chuckle at that one too. There is so much more time for nasty things to happen to your kids after high school - addiction, bad breakups/divorce, job loss, mental issues, etc. It really seems like parenting can be never ending. You don't just forget about your kids once they graduate high school/college. There's a saying, you're only as happy as you're unhappiest child. Just seems to be a good amount of unhappy people out there these days.
If we're really going to get into it - there are reasons aside from financial reasons to not have kids these days. Being a parent today (if you have any standards) is pretty complex. There are many more rules, laws, expectations and judgment from others involved in having kids. It seems like by todays rules parents are expected to keep kids constantly engaged, entertained and of course well behaved until they are in college. Kids don't seem to just play outside the way they used to...there's way more disorders and diagnoses today than ever before from allergies to mental issues. I truly think some people have kids because they want a baby....and then don't really think about everything else once that baby stage is over. They think they can mold their kids into whatever they wish.
some people have become more aware of how difficult having kids can be...which is why people have less. In addition to being expensive you never know what kind of kid you might end up with. Just because you yourself were a certain way does not necessarily mean your kid will be the same way either.
I also think parents think that once their kids make it through high school they are good to go if nothing bad has happened and I kind of chuckle at that one too. There is so much more time for nasty things to happen to your kids after high school - addiction, bad breakups/divorce, job loss, mental issues, etc. It really seems like parenting can be never ending. You don't just forget about your kids once they graduate high school/college. There's a saying, you're only as happy as you're unhappiest child. Just seems to be a good amount of unhappy people out there these days.
This is a very dark view of parenting... and these certainly are excuses cited by many developed world people in their 20s-30s to justify their zero-child plans... and cited by people in their 40s-50s and above to assuage their pangs of guilt and jealousy.
In high birth rate countries, such as those in the Middle East and Africa, there is mental illness, violence, disorders etc., but people just go ahead and have lots of babies. This works, because if you have 6 children and 2 have mental problems or physical ailments, you still get 4 healthy ones to support you and carry on the family line. You also get a more youthful population that is more energetic, restless and full of new ideas. Hence their expansion into developed countries to supplement and replace the aging natives.
Imagine Africa with its huge and burgeoning population, becoming an economic colossus some time later this century. I believe they will not stay under developed forever.
This is a very dark view of parenting... and these certainly are excuses cited by many developed world people in their 20s-30s to justify their zero-child plans... and cited by people in their 40s-50s and above to assuage their pangs of guilt and jealousy.
In high birth rate countries, such as those in the Middle East and Africa, there is mental illness, violence, disorders etc., but people just go ahead and have lots of babies. This works, because if you have 6 children and 2 have mental problems or physical ailments, you still get 4 healthy ones to support you and carry on the family line. You also get a more youthful population that is more energetic, restless and full of new ideas. Hence their expansion into developed countries to supplement and replace the aging natives.
Imagine Africa with its huge and burgeoning population, becoming an economic colossus some time later this century. I believe they will not stay under developed forever.
Im not sure what this has to do with jealousy? I think most people who have kids have expectations...sure they want healthy kids, but they want them thriving as well. Most people in the US seem to think their kids are going to be great and have high hopes for them. It's like a sin as a parent to not think your kids are great and have big dreams for them. I don't know anyone who think, yeah it's all good if my kid is average. I think the closest I've heard to that lately is from my anxious friend who says it's fine if her 7 year old doesn't go to college because she hates school.
In 3rd world countries some of these disorders and conditions I mentioned are harder to detect. People are simply trying to survive...they're not taking their kids to the dr wondering if they have ADHD, sensory processing disorder or a tree nut allergy. Perhaps American parents look too hard for something to be wrong which has added to this expensive, time consuming problem of kids at times.
The pressure to marry began when Amiee was in her early 20s.
By 25, her Chinese parents were accusing her of causing them a public loss of face because she still had no plans to wed. Her father warned her that women are worth less to a man as they near the age of 30, when — according to Chinese government propaganda — their peak childbearing time has passed. When Amiee was 29, her mother threatened to jump off a building if she didn’t find a husband.
At family gatherings like Chinese New Year, relatives badgered her to help her “entire clan find peace,” she told me, and at work she was pressured into company-organized blind dates, chaperoned by several colleagues. These were “terrifying,” she said.
I hear similar stories from single women across China, where sexist state propaganda labels single professional women older than 27 as sheng nu, or leftover women.
Facing a shrinking population and a long-term economic slowdown, the party wants China’s women to be docile, baby-breeding guarantors of social, economic and demographic stability.
But a hoped-for baby boom has not materialized. Marriage registrations have fallen for nine consecutive years leading up to 2022, when they sank to the lowest level since the government began releasing figures in 1986. New births have also continued to fall, with only 9.56 million babies being born last year, the fewest since records began with the founding of Communist China in 1949. The nation’s population shrank in 2022 for the first time in six decades, allowing India to overtake China as the world’s most populous country.
There's a lot more in the article, I hope you read it.
The institution of marriage and parenthood is falling by the wayside in many nations, for many of the reasons we've discussed since the start of this thread.
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The three main causes of low fertility rate have been identified as (1) the emancipation and education of women, (2) urbanization of families as they move to the cities, and (3) decrease in the influence of religion. LINK
Chinese women have added a fourth - defiance of government orders. It seems very few actions taken by a government have the intended outcome.
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Population economics is something I am watching. We've had population declines before.
Add in AI, we are in new uncharted territory.
Isaac Asimov, presented glimpse of population collapse and robotics/AI in his early novellas featuring, R. Daneel Olivaw.
Last edited by leastprime; 11-26-2023 at 12:44 PM..
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