Should the Tax on Firearms and Ammunition be Increased? (Iraq, Alabama, solution)
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Almost all large city school districts have armed security and a double vestibule entrance where you do not past the 2nd set of doors without security buzzing you in. We spend 93 millio0n dollars helping Ukraine and cannot take care of our own problems.
We spent a lot more than 93 million. I have no issue helping Ukraine. But we have spent trillions of extra spending the past couple years. I don't recall school security being a priority. States still have so much money they don't know what to do with it.
Every single school in America has to have security set up where an armed person cannot just walk inside. Every school. Some vague we need gun control mantra does nothing to make our school children safer now.
Then there was the negligent idiot who decided to prove how bad gun laws are by buying a gun, refusing to accept the free coaching offered by the gun store, blogging about how little she then knew about the gun, carrying it to a childs birthday party, and leaving it in her handbag on the floor… so she could blog about how scared she was that a kid would find it. It was literally the dumbest “investigative journalism” piece ever written.
Ukraine has long had a tricky relationship with guns. In the course of its post-Soviet history, it has been the only country in Europe without legislation governing the civilian possession of firearms
Today, after numerous shaky ceasefires and direct incursions of Russian soldiers and artillery, a tense, often-deadly stasis has taken hold, and the military weapons are increasingly flooding out of the conflict zone and into the hands of civilians.
According to the Ukrainian photographer Andrey Lomakin, who photographed civilian gun owners in their homes, in 2014 and 2015, the insecurity and trauma of the war have made firearms in Ukraine a kind of “modern amulet,” awarding their owners “an extra power.” “Not everyone is comfortable to point it at the aggressor and shoot,” he has written. “But everyone feels safer having one.”
He has seen a growing number of otherwise law-abiding citizens looking to buy guns, both legally and on the black market. Last year, the head of a Ukrainian association of gun owners told the Associated Press that the country contained as many as five million illegal firearms. “Ukraine has turned into a supermarket for illegal weapons,” he said.
In (a slightly biased) article you are linking - they actually say that no guns except for hunting is allowed in Ukraine.
The eventual armaments of the population mostly happened in Eastern Ukraine, the population of which had to procure weapons to at least somewhat respond to being bombed and shelled by their own government - for 8 years non-stop.
Your “The New Yorker” article quotes 10000 people dead “in fighting” by 2017 - but there was no fighting - it was the government shelling their own civilians because they had different ethnicity?
The rest of the Ukraine was in turmoil as well from the moment we started interfering into their internal affairs by replacing their leadership, providing weapons, militarizing the violent band formations against their own people.
Those ”hastily assembled volunteer battalions” mentioned in your link - are the SS wearing symbols pro-nazi bands - Azov and the others
There was no law and order in Ukraine for many years - yes, people wanted the illusion of gun protection against criminals and those de-facto ruling band formations, wearing the military uniforms - YT has videos of them harassing civilians in broad daylight in the busy streets: cutting the men’s pants and underwear, tying them to lamp posts, wrapping a woman’s whole body and part of the head in saran wrap - not sure what those people did wrong. Think it was their capital city, but not sure
We created a dysfunctional government and a civil war in Ukraine - 8 years and counting.
My point is the arming of the population in Ukraine did not help to establish law and order against those para-military groups nor now against Russian army - the civilians who decided to fight the invasion just increased the death toll unfortunately.
They would be better off laying down the arms if they had them
As an immigrant, I am not sold on the 2nd amendment. I understand the heritage of*guns in US history for self-protection, but today there is much less shortage of police officers, so I think that is less of a valid argument. Tobacco, stagecoaches, rodeo clowns, and more were once part of American*heritage.
The militia is a different argument.
With 400M guns in the US, how many times has an armed member of the public used a firearm to prevent or end a tragedy?
Blaming the prevalence of gun violence on mental health issues is a false equivalence. Other countries have mental health issues too, but little gun violence. Since 2018, at least three bills have been introduced in Congress that would, amongst other things, have increased the federal tax on both guns and ammo to 50%. They've gone nowhere.*
I'm not a fan of the current three-tier alcohol regulation system, but I think it might have some application to the gun and ammo industry. Manufacturers can only sell to wholesalers, who can only sell to retailers, who can only sell to consumers. Anyone found in violation would automatically lose their license to do business. The rest of the problems with that, who's a wholesaler/retailer etc. are only bureaucratic matters.
Then I would tax the hell out of the ammo. $1 per round for the basics, more for the more sophisticated, and further increases if that proved ineffective. Wouldn't try to take guns away from anyone. Severe penalties on anyone who uses homemade ammo.
1. Where would the tax money go?
2. If you are going to shoot up a school or a concert like in Las Vegas do you really care about the price of ammo or getting caught with homemade ammo?
3. The sales chain works pretty good as is. What do you do with used gun sales?
These last two shootings Buffalo/Uvalde are oddities. One guy was specific, targeted minorities 200 miles from home. The other was more of a random selection. The white power guy had to have signs of what was brewing in his mind. Tx guy, so far nothing getting reported on why he picked that location.
Parkland was a revenge type shooting at his former school. Again there were signs this kid was going to be a problem.
In (a slightly biased) article you are linking - they actually say that no guns except for hunting is allowed in Ukraine.
What is technically the law in a country and what actually goes on are two different things. In the USA federally marijuana is still illegal. During prohibition booze was illegal. Guns are illegal in Ukriane except for hunting. But what actually goes on there years before Putin's recent invasion is very different. Mexico owning a gun requires buying a gun from the only gun store in the country in Mexico city and getting approval from the government. Yet their gun homicide rate is way higher than here.
Quote:
Originally Posted by L00k4ward
We created a dysfunctional government and a civil war in Ukraine - 8 years and counting.
My point is the arming of the population in Ukraine did not help to establish law and order against those para-military groups nor now against Russian army - the civilians who decided to fight the invasion just increased the death toll unfortunately.
They would be better off laying down the arms if they had them
We tend to make things worse when we interfere in other countries. But I don't think making things better is the reason we interfere.
Ukraine was able to fight off much of the Russian invasion. From what I have read the fact Ukrainians were armed did not hurt in that situation. Of course those fighting off the Russians increased the death toll. They could have just all surrendered and Russia would have control the the entire country. Lots of people have suggested this as the best option. Certainly less dead Ukrainians and Russians. But I disagree that this would have been the correct choice. I believe if Ukraine has fallen like Afghanistan did with the Taliban, Putin would have been embolden to advance into other countries.
People in this country and according to that story in Ukraine arm themselves for protection. Is the country safer because you have a firearm? Probably not but you feel safer and you can protect yourself if the situation warrants.
I would be opposed to the OP's proposal. The OP doesn't appear to be informed of current requirements and suggests homemade ammunition, a technology well in reach of average citizens since the colonial age, could somehow be reversed. Further, it negates to explain how a higher taxation rate would have lead to a prevention of the massacres to be avoided.
The root cause of these shootings are that there are nutjobs out there among us. One could look to see if mental facilities for care are available or not, but mental patients don't always go to help received even when it is available. Identification is another difficult thing spot. Asking a cashier to be able to spot check whether or not a person is stable is likely harder than it is for a professional psychiatrist. Furthermore, it's difficult to know how many imperfect beings would actually become violent to the degree of the killers in this case.
Nay, what would be easier to identify is access to a school. If this is an elementary school, then the adults inside the compound should consist of faculty....and children. Not meandering 20 year olds for any reason. Overseas, schools are walled off affairs. It prevents children from running out. It prevents unnecessary adults from going in. Access would be a far better deterrent.
Recently there was a shooting incident right outside my home, the police department is 4 blocks away; and took 10 minutes to arrive.
During this incident, a victim broke into neighbor's home; while he was home.
And you're suggesting I should pay an extra tax for a shotgun?.
In light of recent events, they should simply arm everyone; since the police have no balls anymore.
I would be opposed to the OP's proposal. The OP doesn't appear to be informed of current requirements and suggests homemade ammunition, a technology well in reach of average citizens since the colonial age, could somehow be reversed. Further, it negates to explain how a higher taxation rate would have lead to a prevention of the massacres to be avoided.
The root cause of these shootings are that there are nutjobs out there among us. One could look to see if mental facilities for care are available or not, but mental patients don't always go to help received even when it is available. Identification is another difficult thing spot. Asking a cashier to be able to spot check whether or not a person is stable is likely harder than it is for a professional psychiatrist. Furthermore, it's difficult to know how many imperfect beings would actually become violent to the degree of the killers in this case.
Nay, what would be easier to identify is access to a school. If this is an elementary school, then the adults inside the compound should consist of faculty....and children. Not meandering 20 year olds for any reason. Overseas, schools are walled off affairs. It prevents children from running out. It prevents unnecessary adults from going in. Access would be a far better deterrent.
Moonshine tech, a far less dangerous one, has also been around since colonial times. It was made illegal.
Economics 101: Price elasticity of demand. The higher the taxes, the fewer purchased.
1. Where would the tax money go?
2. If you are going to shoot up a school or a concert like in Las Vegas do you really care about the price of ammo or getting caught with homemade ammo?
3. The sales chain works pretty good as is. What do you do with used gun sales?
These last two shootings Buffalo/Uvalde are oddities. One guy was specific, targeted minorities 200 miles from home. The other was more of a random selection. The white power guy had to have signs of what was brewing in his mind. Tx guy, so far nothing getting reported on why he picked that location.
Parkland was a revenge type shooting at his former school. Again there were signs this kid was going to be a problem.
1: Why does that matter? No shortage of gun related remedial activities.
2: If the ammo is expensive fewer will contemplate.
3: Used gun sales via licensed dealer only, at dealer's discretion. Can be on consignment.
Pew has a review of its gun polling this morning......
Quote:
Americans’ views on gun policy
Several horrific mass shootings have left readers looking for information about Americans’ views on gun policy. A 2021 Pew Research Center survey highlighted the public’s views of gun-related proposals, from barring people with mental illnesses from obtaining guns to expanding background checks for firearm purchases. The same survey showed how attitudes about these policies differed between gun owners and non-owners. Other recent publications have highlighted key facts about Americans and guns, as well as the record number of people who died of gun-related injuries in the U.S. in 2020.
From 2018: American teens’ worries about the possibility of a shooting happening at their school
From 2017: America’s complex relationship with guns
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