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First we have to accept the premise that it is not irrational to want to die.
If we don't accept this premise, we are caught in a Catch-22 in that people who want to die are crazy and if they are crazy, they can't make a rational decision. So, we have to accept that wanting to die can be a rational choice that someone can effectuate.
Watching someone die in hospice care at home was the worst experience of my life. No hydration; no nutrition. Just a slow wasting away. Every day worse than the one before. Life slowly ebbing away.
I do not want to subject my family to that experience.
Passively dying is not better than pro-actively dying. It is seriously worse.
i don't understand how someone in hospice would have no food and no water.
that simply does not sound right.
hospice is based on keeping the patient comfortable and managing pain. most people i've known over the decades have had very positive things to say about hospice care for their loved ones, and also as a calming helpful resource for the family and loved ones surrounding the patient, both emotionally, and also educationally providing information and answering questions and offering reassurance about what to expect and how to make things easier. hospice is generally regarded and recognized as a very humane and desirable option and is in high demand.
Last edited by Tzaphkiel; 04-25-2023 at 11:12 PM..
i don't understand how someone in hospice would have no food and no water.
that simply does not sound right.
hospice is based on keeping the patient comfortable. most people i've known over the decades have had very positive things to say about hospice care for their loved ones, and also as a calming helpful resource for the family and loved ones surrounding the patient, both emotionally, and also educationally providing information and answering questions and offering reassurance about what to expect and how to make things easier.
Dying people stop eating and than they stop drinking. Nutrition and hydration prolongs life while the goal of hospice is to comfort patients before they die. What hospice workers will sometimes do is put ice chips in the mouth of a dying person who is thirsty.
Individual decisions have to be made when a patient is placed on hospice. Many people do not want a loved one to die of pneumonia and will ask for treatment for that problem if it develops even though such treatment will prolong life.
I've seen hospice in action. Its great for some patients. Probably unnecessary for others (who are dying quickly and comfortably on their own) However, its becoming the gold standard for virtually all dying patiens and medicare is billed heavily for hospice services.
I'll know when I get there. Personally, I like the idea of assisted suicide in that you can pick a time and method for your life to end.
i believe there have been cultures and times when people decided it was time to go, and internally had the ability to send that message to their body and have it happen naturally. i also have always liked the idea, reading or hearing about indigenous peoples for instance in the snowy north, who knew when it was their4 time, and they would peacefully go off into the snow or the wilderness and die that way, and it was the way of the community. my own sense is that i don't really want people around me, because it feels like that would make it harder to let go and leave peacefully. i remember from when i was working with and talking to people who worked in hospice, and they said family members who "didn't want their loved one to go" actually could hinder a peaceful passing. the person would wait for the family to leave the room and then they could die in peace. i remember them telling us, for a peaceful passing to internally say over and over to the person silently "it's OK to go now" and this actually helps them leave easier. it just feels to me like such an internal step to take, that all my focus is turned within and anything other than that is a distraction.
i believe there have been cultures and times when people decided it was time to go, and internally had the ability to send that message to their body and have it happen naturally. i also have always liked the idea, reading or hearing about indigenous peoples for instance in the snowy north, who knew when it was their4 time, and they would peacefully go off into the snow or the wilderness and die that way, and it was the way of the community. my own sense is that i don't really want people around me, because it feels like that would make it harder to let go and leave peacefully. i remember from when i was working with and talking to people who worked in hospice, and they said family members who "didn't want their loved one to go" actually could hinder a peaceful passing. the person would wait for the family to leave the room and then they could die in peace. i remember them telling us, for a peaceful passing to internally say over and over to the person silently "it's OK to go now" and this actually helps them leave easier. it just feels to me like such an internal step to take, that all my focus is turned within and anything other than that is a distraction.
Ideally people would do exactly what you are describing. Its not been my experience though. My FIL probably suffered for nine months from cancer before he passed on. My mother had a much better experience, but she went through a period of weeks before she died. Fortunately, hospice made that experience a fairly decent one.
I tend to think people die when their bodies are ready for them to die. Heart failure and respiratory failure are common causes of death. I wish death was more often quick and peaceful, but too often it is not. I have talked to hospice nurses who have compared the process of dying to giving birth. There are stages in the process and you have to pass through them until you get to the end. My father had a very peaceful death, but spent days getting there. In his case, every day he was a just a little more sleepy than the day before until he simply fell asleep and died a couple of days later. Every once in a while you will hear about someone who just went to sleep and totally--unexpectedly--died in their sleep. The reason though you tend to hear about such cases is that they are quite rare. Most people get plenty of indication that things are not right with their bodies before they pass away and its usually not pleasant.
Every once in a while you will hear about someone who just went to sleep and totally--unexpectedly--died in their sleep. The reason though you tend to hear about such cases is that they are quite rare. Most people get plenty of indication that things are not right with their bodies before they pass away and its usually not pleasant.
One of my neighbors went that day. The day before he died he was at an ice hockey organization committee, and then he died in his sleep, at about 86. My paternal grandfather keeled over and died at a budget meeting in his architecture practice of what, in 1957, was called a heart attack. He was about 72.
Here's a story from 2018 about a 104-year-old man, David Goodall, who had outlived all his peers, wasn't terminal, but did not enjoy the grind of living at 104 and wanted to die peacefully. So he went to Switzerland where, under some circumstances, one may receive assisted-suicide. He went blissfully to sleep as Beethoven's "Ode to Joy" played in the background. ************
This practice should be allowed within our medical business, with safeguards to assure it is used in a totally voluntary manner.
I agree.
We are merciful to our pets but not to our people.
We warehouse our people when they are infirm and their quality of life is zero. Why? Because we don't want to let them go?
What about what they want?
Maybe someday in the US the laws will change to allow voluntary euthanasia for the elderly.
When that happens my choice is Edvard Grieg's "Morning."
i don't understand how someone in hospice would have no food and no water.
that simply does not sound right.
hospice is based on keeping the patient comfortable and managing pain. most people i've known over the decades have had very positive things to say about hospice care for their loved ones, and also as a calming helpful resource for the family and loved ones surrounding the patient, both emotionally, and also educationally providing information and answering questions and offering reassurance about what to expect and how to make things easier. hospice is generally regarded and recognized as a very humane and desirable option and is in high demand.
Hope this helps you understand. Hospice does not routinely provide hydration or nutrition.
Why Does Hospice Stop Giving End-of-Life Patients Food and Water?
Continuing to offer food and water, or opting for artificial nutrition or hydration (ANH)—such as nasal (NG) or stomach (PEG) feeding tubes or IV fluids for hydration—can actually complicate the dying process and lead to other health problems.
End-of-life patients who are fed through artificial means can suffer from gagging, tube complications (e.g., blockages or infections), discomfort, aspiration pneumonia, pressure sores, bloating and a sense of “drowning” or feeling “trapped.”
Moreover, studies have shown that artificial nutrition has very little impact on survival for hospice patients. For example, studies show that dementia patients who are tube-fed have no different life expectancy than those who are slow hand-fed.
Regardless of the law, there are non violent options out there like the helium hood. Your body, your choice and no one should be subjected to prolonged suffering when quality of life has deteriorated.
Exactly.I don't see why a person who can still move, needs to go to a clinic to end it all. I have already decided I will do it myself, if the time comes. Many people manage to do it, without paying a clinic.
Regardless of the law, there are non violent options out there like the helium hood. Your body, your choice and no one should be subjected to prolonged suffering when quality of life has deteriorated.
I read that helium distributors are mixing in more oxygen, to avoid suicides, or at least to limit their liability. I was told that nitrogen would work well. Not liquid nitrogen, that'll freeze-burn you.
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