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with so many people living so close to the river it would be nearly impossible not to mention way too expensive..
That would the single biggest thing that would make it impossibly expensive. To make something like this work you'd have to build a canal and that means all the property along the length of the river on one side would need to be taken through eminent domain, that in itself is going to be big $$$ even before you start building such a project. Houses, manufacturing plants, farms (that utilize the river and need access)... the list of problems to make such a project work is monumental even before you build.
How deep do you think you need to have a navigable channel?
What's the flood stage in your area?
I bet that most of the riverside properties are far above the necessary water level for a navigable channel / lake.
Remember, Tenn-Tom was only 12' deep - and that was designed for monster barges.
The original Erie Canal was only 4' deep! (Later improved to 7' and then 12' depth).
And instead of condemning property under eminent domain, do a compensatory swap.
Give each displaced owner 2 lots - one waterfront - one not. And build 2 modest homes for them. (Preferably superinsulated, fiber reinforced cement stress skin panels, disaster resistant to the max.)
Betcha they'll jump for joy. Because if they don't want to live on the waterfront, they'll be able to rent it. Or vice versa.
Set-for-life.
The river in a sense is already a set of natural dams, what you'll have is a short area with rapid elevation loss then a long expanse usually 1/2 mile to 1 mile long where you'll get "deep" calm water that loses very little elevation. The issue is that this "deep" water can be walked across during the summer on most parts and I don't think a lot of people realize that. If you looked up unnavigable river there should be side note pointing to the Susquehanna. I'd guess the average depth is only 2 or 3 feet at least on the upper part down to around West Pittston. It's not very deep at all especially if you get a very low water event. You have to understand there is no depth to the river, it's alive and the depths can even change dramatically over time in some really turbulent areas. Let me put it to you this way, you can't navigate a small fishing boat from W-B to West Pittston if the river is down. There's only small areas of the river when it gets low to navigate even a small boat with a prop and if you don't know where they are you're going to start breaking stuff. The entire length of the river is like this at least on the upper part.
Meshoppen itself or Myo beach slightly north where I have my place has vertical cliff across the river. This is why it's popular for boats because it's one area that is deep enough for larger ones. The "beach" side slowly descends to the other side where its deepest. About half way across you'll be up to your neck. All the way across about 20 feet off shore is maybe 10 feet deep. However about half a mile up the river is a rapids that isn't more than 2 foot deep at the very most all the way across. If you get a very low water event even bringing a boat down it is an issue let alone going up.
The river is FULLY navigable by a jet boat for the better part of the year, some sections might be too shallow in one spot but there is a way thru and as soon as it rains they can be easily run.
I have a fishfinder/depthfinder on my kayak and you would be surprised at the depth of sections of the river in the middle or end of the summer. Even when the river was considered low last year there were sections easily maintaining 20ft in depth. There are many many areas that you could never walk across no matter how low the river is. There is a section below the Tunkhannock bridge that maintains 12-17ft for a mile and then there is a section above the Whites Ferry launch that maintains the same depth of 12+ft from La Grange island right to the shallows above Whites Ferry.
This is no longer 1930 and the population has grown, therefore the barges will need to be three or four times as large as 100 years ago to accomodate the increased demand in the area. It wouldn't be fiscally responsible to send five barges towards the south to serve an eighth of America when one freight train can pull the whole thing.
Actually, the census data for Wilkes-Barre shows the peak population was 86,626 in 1930. Census 2000 lists 43,123.
Kingston (2000 census) 13,855
1940: 20,679
Hmmm, doesn't look like growth to me.
A change in population does not mean that barges must therefore be "three or four times as large". There's no correlation between population and barge size. The cargo and waterway determine the barge size.
IF the SVA builds locks and channels for large barges, then large barges will be able to navigate. If the locks and channels are for medium size barges, that's what will fit. There's no "one size fits all" that I know of.
"Barges are used today for low-value bulk items, as the cost of hauling goods by barge is very low."
Here's a reference to barges that run through Paris on the Seine.Cruises in France (http://www.french-at-a-touch.com/Travel/cruisedeals.htm - broken link)
Cruises in narrow barges with 4 and 5 ft. draft.
"Fiscal Responsibility" is a vague rebuttal.
Water is the cheapest mode of shipping. When shippers can't use water (for scheduling reasons, perishable cargo or whatever), that's when they resort to other more expensive means.
At the point where the Susquehanna River flows into the Chesapeake bay, the average depth is 30 feet (9 m). How far upstream could we maintain a 30 ft. depth? 20 ft depth? 12 ft. depth? That would determine the maximum size vessels that could go inland.
It would be jolly good fun to have a sea going container ship dock at Harrisburg or farther inland.
"Two barges, built specifically for the purpose of creating a river-going hotel, are welded together and pushed by a "tow boat" through the rivers of America from the Gulf Coast to Illinois."
Imagine if that was from the Chesapeake Bay to upstate New York...
Let us speculate further...
As news of the waterway spreads, one might also expect seasonal live-aboards to summer on the serene Susquehanna. As petroleum costs put a crimp in RV living for retirees, perhaps the next generation will buy houseboats, catamarans and river cruisers.
Each spring, the flotilla of "sunbirds" return to their summer nesting grounds, along the many ports of the Susquehanna river. Cruising north, via the Intracoastal waterway, from their winter ports, in Florida, the migrants pour into the inland of Pennsylvania, exploring and sampling the local culture.
Local businesses look forward to their arrival. An upswing in activity heralds their approach. And as they arrive, their friends and relatives from surrounding areas come and visit, boosting tourism, too. Some visit their children who attend the many universities and colleges along the river.
It's a grand time. Festivities abound, and music floats over the water. Each week end, local artists put on an art show, selling their wares. Streets are blocked off for impromptu markets. Party boats line the docks and anchorages. Each night, a display of fireworks light up the sky, in celebration of happy times.
It's on that map I linked too, toggle the map. It goes right through the mountain, although that particular part is quite a bend the rest of the river is much the same way. When you look at it on real map, the road maps show it as straight but its anything but straight.
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Quote:
I forgot to mention that engineering the "Susquehanna River Authority" program would probably involve the Chemung
I've been on that river in late August and it's not much bigger than a creek. That was actually one the weirdest nights of my life. My friends had busted up their canoe under I-17 and their GF's delivered one about 2AM. During the trip down back to camp from the bridge all the damn fish were jumping in the boat.. it was really surreal. A few even bounced off my head.. The concrete pier is from I-17 going across the Chemung.
The river is FULLY navigable by a jet boat for the better part of the year,.
Note I said prop. Actually you can propbably go most of the river if you have a jet boat. Just need to know where the channels are. The neighbor near us has one on a big flat bottom boat and he can take that thing packed with people places some canoes can't handle. I think he said he only needs 2 or 3 inches of water but he has to go fast.
Yeh I'm looking to trade my 21' deep vee center console in for a 20' jon boat with a jet this year to hunt waterfowl on the river next season. There are two airboats on the river below Laceyville and those guys fly right over gravel bars like they are not even there, thats the way to go.
I'm sure we'll pass one another and not even know it this year. I plan on being on the river alot this year in the kayak. At least twice a week to start the season. As soon as the ice is off and the water stabilizes I'll be looking for early walleye and musky.
"The dams have a positive impact on the environment. They slow water trapping silt and pollutants. Conowingo Dam is credited with preventing much of the silt from Pennsylvania from reaching the Chesapeake Bay. The dam spillways can add oxygen to the water. The down stream side of dams is favored by aquatic birds, possibly because the fish that pass through the dam are a bit stunned. Conowingo Dam is noted for its Bald Eagles. Hydroelectric power is considered an environmentally friendly method of power generation.
The dams also make a negative impact on the environment. They raise the water level, altering the riparian environment. The upstream pools can become environmentally unsound below the surface, especially during summer. They block migratory fish, such as the American shad. The dams from York Haven down to the Chesapeake all have fish ladders or lifts to mitigate this."
The environmental group American Rivers named the Susquehanna "America's Most Endangered River for 2005" due to the excessive pollution it receives. Most of the pollution in the river is due to excess animal manure, agricultural runoff, urban and suburban stormwater, and raw or inadequately treated sewage. In 2003 the river alone contributed 44% of the nitrogen, 21% of the phosphorus, and 21% of the sediment flowing into the Chesapeake Bay. Pennsylvania may be subject to EPA sanctions if it does not reduce its pollution in the watershed by 2010. It was designated as one of the American Heritage Rivers in 1997.
In the 1970s, the Chesapeake Bay was discovered to contain one of the planet's first identified marine dead zones, where hypoxic waters were so depleted of oxygen they were unable to support life, resulting in massive fish kills. Today the bay's dead zones are estimated to kill 75,000 tons of bottom-dwelling clams and worms each year, weakening the base of the estuary's food chain and robbing the blue crab in particular of a primary food source. Crabs themselves are sometimes observed to amass on shore to escape pockets of oxygen-poor water, a behavior known as a "crab jubilee". Hypoxia results in part from large algae blooms, which are nourished by the runoff of farm and industrial waste throughout the watershed.
Speculation -
A series of dams and locks, creating lakes and navigable channels may have a beneficial effect on the overall health of the Susquehanna watershed and especially the Chesapeake bay.
By trapping sediment and pollutants away from the Chesapeake, the estuary would benefit. In addition, sources of the pollution would be easier to trace and ameliorate.
One important side effect of comprehensive flood control is the elimination of the barrier levees. The barren levees do not support natural filtration, and merely contain the water, so it rushes that much faster to the bay. Restoring the shoreline and buffer zone would allow for more percolation and filtration by natural means.
Coordinating a SVA damming program that included new waste treatment, aeration from spillways, wetlands recycling of wastes, shoreline parks and buffer zones, and extensive engineering of tributary feeds, the Susquehanna river may recover from abuse.
You have a point.
At least, with the hockey game, you get your money's worth.
Re: "Who will pay?"
What do you think taxes are? They're taken from tax payers.
You have been indoctrinated to believe in socialist government.
Government makes nothing but more government.
Government gives nothing but that which was taken from someone else.
So what would happen if a sizable majority of people pooled their time, labor and treasure to do something INCREDIBLE? Even if it opposed the "wishes" of the servant government, would it be worth it?
Re: Pipe Dream...
I think there was a similar situation where a renown power bloc was forced to surrender its power - way back in 1783 or 1784... it'll come to me, eventually.
"At the Revolution, the sovereignty devolved on the people and they are truly the sovereigns of the country."
Chisholm v. Georgia, 2 Dall. 440, 463
"The people of the state, as the successors of its former sovereign, are entitled to all the rights which formerly belonged to the king by his own prerogative."
Lansing v. Smith, (1829) 4 Wendell 9, (NY)
If the people of NE PA can't stand up on their own two feet, and act like sovereigns, then you are correct, and such peons should scrabble about, begging for scraps tossed from Master's table.
Buddy, you're preaching to the choir here. Do you think any of us enjoy being raped of over half our salaries in taxes? What do you propose we do about it? Our esteemed government spent trillions of dollars of our money to make sure the U.S.A can destroy the entire world many times over at a push of a few buttons. They can nuke Earth...what?... one thousand times over? How many millions of "sheeple" would we have to organize to fight that? Two billion people organizing with torches and pitchforks wouldn't even frighten our government that can technically destroy us all at will. The let's take back our government is a nice dream, but let's face it, we are powerless. Like I said earlier, we cannot even organize ten people to get outraged enough at our greedy, corrupt Luzerne County government too fight for thier rights by protesting this embarrassment, but I was at the hockey game the other night and it was almost sold out?! As long as people happily bend over and take it in the you know what, and don't even bat an eyebrow, they will continue to run ruffshot right over us. So let the unwashed masses continue to drink beer and listen to ROCK 107 and watch The Family Guy. Ignorance is bliss, and this country is overflowing with tens of millions of ignorant people (just the way our government wants us) that are totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Most people in America get more upset if thier football team loses a game, then the fact that our government just handed over our treasury and all our money to Goldman Sach's, Fanny Mae, Freddy Mack and the rest of thier greedy Wall St friends that are spending OUR money further enriching themselves, buying personal jets, going to fancy spas and resorts, giving themselves outrageous bonuses that equal more then any of us will make in a lifetime. But who cares... The 76ers are playing this weekend!. I hate to say it, but we almost deserve it. It's a shame but it is what it is. This country needs another Martin Luther King or someone. A leader that can organize millions of people to stand up against injustice and actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR COUNTRY!!! Most people are much more content grumbling over it with friends at the local corner bar though.
Buddy, you're preaching to the choir here. Do you think any of us enjoy being raped of over half our salaries in taxes? What do you propose we do about it? Our esteemed government spent trillions of dollars of our money to make sure the U.S.A can destroy the entire world many times over at a push of a few buttons. They can nuke Earth...what?... one thousand times over? How many millions of "sheeple" would we have to organize to fight that? Two billion people organizing with torches and pitchforks wouldn't even frighten our government that can technically destroy us all at will. The let's take back our government is a nice dream, but let's face it, we are powerless. Like I said earlier, we cannot even organize ten people to get outraged enough at our greedy, corrupt Luzerne County government too fight for thier rights by protesting this embarrassment, but I was at the hockey game the other night and it was almost sold out?! As long as people happily bend over and take it in the you know what, and don't even bat an eyebrow, they will continue to run ruffshot right over us. So let the unwashed masses continue to drink beer and listen to ROCK 107 and watch The Family Guy. Ignorance is bliss, and this country is overflowing with tens of millions of ignorant people (just the way our government wants us) that are totally oblivious to what is going on in the real world. Most people in America get more upset if thier football team loses a game, then the fact that our government just handed over our treasury and all our money to Goldman Sach's, Fanny Mae, Freddy Mack and the rest of thier greedy Wall St friends that are spending OUR money further enriching themselves, buying personal jets, going to fancy spas and resorts, giving themselves outrageous bonuses that equal more then any of us will make in a lifetime. But who cares... The 76ers are playing this weekend!. I hate to say it, but we almost deserve it. It's a shame but it is what it is. This country needs another Martin Luther King or someone. A leader that can organize millions of people to stand up against injustice and actually DO SOMETHING ABOUT WHAT IS HAPPENING TO OUR COUNTRY!!! Most people are much more content grumbling over it with friends at the local corner bar though.
I got a little overzealous here. After I read my post, I realized it is probably on par with the unibomber manifesto. I don't want the "feds" coming here kicking down my door while I'm sitting here in my P.J.'s eating a T.V. dinner, while sitting at the computer.
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Actually you can propbably go most of the river if you have a jet boat. Just need to know where the channels are. The neighbor near us has one on a big flat bottom boat and he can take that thing packed with people places some canoes can't handle. I think he said he only needs 2 or 3 inches of water but he has to go fast.
As long as people happily bend over and take it in the you know what, and don't even bat an eyebrow, they will continue to run ruffshot right over us. So let the unwashed masses continue to drink beer and listen to ROCK 107 and watch The Family Guy. Ignorance is bliss, and this country is overflowing with tens of millions of ignorant people (just the way our government wants us
. I don't want the "feds" coming here kicking down my door while I'm sitting here in my P.J.'s eating a T.V. dinner, while sitting at the computer.