Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
Maybe we should be discussing income, means of obtaining income and distribution of income throughout the society with working for a wage being only one of the means of obtaining an income.
The fundamental concept of a society at large is that the society advances in prosperity, through the collective efforts of the society, and each individual's well-being is enhanced accordingly. If a well is dug through community effort, every member of the community is entitled to take the water he needs, without regard to what part he played in the digging. And nobody is entitled to exert personal control over the well, no matter how important he may have been in the creation of the resource.
We have drifted quite far from this viewpoint. Individuals look at society now as a resource they can exploit, rather than a collective that prospers for the good of all.
Why not just make it easy to find work, so no motivation is required. Guarantee a job to every person. If there aren't enough jobs, pay everyone anyway until a job becomes available. Why is that so hard to grasp?
The Soviet Union tried that already, and you can see how well it worked.
Quote:
Why are you so in love with the barbaric system in which there are 9 jobs for every ten workers, and the one left sanding when the music stops must endure poverty and indignity and shame?
Maybe that tenth person is the one who starts a business in his garage and ends up being the wealthiest man on the planet. Maybe that tenth person is the single mother who starts making bag lunches for local businesses and ends up being a cooking star on television. Maybe that tenth person is the one who starts a crafting empire and becomes wildly rich and successful.
If everyone has everything handed to them, brilliance and motivation and inspiration and innovation will stagnate. Competition is good. Being taken care of and having your hand held from the cradle to the grave is not good.
you are suggesting what france has had for a long time, "chomage".
a very flexible generous and easy to get unemployment.
its not child needy based its employment-based welfare---- a standing joke in paris.
Handing everyone a job is just another way of social welfare. Tax the crap out of the rich to give those who would normally be unemployed and begging a job.
It's the same system as Sweden, and if I wanted to live there I would go. I have friends there trying to get the hell out because they are taxed 50% of their income and 100% on "luxury" goods, which pretty much anything save the basics. They give us money to buy stuff here for them, such as we recently sent 2 computers and Nintendo DS's, which after shipping and import duties is less then they can buy 1 computer for (not sure how similar, didn't see their comparison). I hear stories about the terrible service (customer and B2B) and it astounds me...no one has incentive to care as they always have an income, and hard to get fired without negligence. Very little incentive to be an entrepreneur to build something like Wal-Mart, as you are taxed like crazy (business and personal) and have a job anyways...so why bother.
Why don't people just save? It's not that hard to take money and put it in savings accounts, even just automatic savings accounts. It's there in case you need it, and it's yours in case you don't...you can use it however you please and keep the interest. If they would take more out of your paycheck anyways to cover it, better that I have control over it then them.
The Soviet Union tried that already, and you can see how well it worked.
.
It didn't work because they started from zero infrastructure, what they gained was destroyed in a world war on their home soil, and they then dedicated the bulk of their production to defending themselves against America's military threat to destroy them as well as every country that would trade with them, and sure enough, we did. Funny thing, how they could not get successful economy going against those odds.
Yes. Which is why we have a society, instead of every man for himself. Why should I go to work in a light bulb factory to make light bulbs for you. Make them yourself. What is everyone so freakin' helpless?
Why should I go to work in a light bulb factory to make light bulbs for you.
That's ridiculous and you know it.
People work producing products that other people BUY, thus providing an income for the person who is producing the products. It's give and take, the dude "making the lightbulbs" isn't doing it for society, he's doing it for himself.
The fundamental concept of a society at large is that the society advances in prosperity, through the collective efforts of the society, and each individual's well-being is enhanced accordingly. If a well is dug through community effort, every member of the community is entitled to take the water he needs, without regard to what part he played in the digging. And nobody is entitled to exert personal control over the well, no matter how important he may have been in the creation of the resource.
We have drifted quite far from this viewpoint. Individuals look at society now as a resource they can exploit, rather than a collective that prospers for the good of all.
Excellent post. I remember as I child hearing stories from my great grandparents and grandparents about their lives on the farm and the communities they lived in. This is exactly the type of attitude they had. The community worked together in this way, especially at planting time and harvest time. None of them gave a damn about being the wealthiest person in the community. It didn't even matter to them. They just worked together as a community so that everyone was 'taken care of.'
And they ALL WORKED. None of them sat around picking their nose all the time as so many people on this forum say would happen in this sort of a setting. I think the big difference between why a 'cooperative' society worked then and it cannot work now is that we are (generally as a society) as selfish as hell. We can't fathom our work simply fulfilling our needs. It has to do more than that--it has to make us rich or we are not motivated to do anything.
In a way, I think all you hard, hard workers who are working and working to become the next J P Morgan are, in a way, the lazy ones deep down. There has to be a carrot dangled in front of you in order to get you to do anything. Otherwise you'd be like the welfare recipients you are always railing on.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mercury Cougar
...ends up being the wealthiest man on the planet. ... a cooking star on television. ... becomes wildly rich and successful.
And this demonstrates what I'm talking about really well. It's all about wealth.
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
