Marijuana is Safer: So Why Are We Driving People to Drink? (Mexicans, lawyers)
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That sounds just like the arguments alcohol prohibition supporters were making some 70 years ago. But I would love to hear some proof to your doomsday prophesy.
Read my comment I just made you'll understand why.
The simple fact of the matter is this: People who advocate the legalization of marijuana, do so, because they want to use the drug themselves, without a stigma attached too it. They want it to be legal, so they, themselves, aren't breaking the law. They could care less if it will cause higher taxes and increased crime. As long as they do not have to face a criminal prosecution.
What's wrong with that? Why are you against liberty?
Also, please back up where you said it will cause increased crime. It seems to me that without such black market demand, there would be less crime. Think about how alcohol prohibition fueled the mafia.
And about increased taxes.. well of course marijuana buyers would start paying taxes for it, but with all that extra revenue, states could most definitely reduce other taxes. Doesn't that sound good for you, a non-marijuana buyer? Plus, less taxes would need to be spent on getting 10 cops at a time to raid people's houses and shoot their dogs over a little bit of pot.
Holland is in Europe tho. If a place like the US or Canada legalized then the crime runs rampant and crime increases because of the Cartels. But if you decriminalize (Like it is in Amsterdam [Myth that's it's legalized]) then you make money off it and crime can't go very far because they'll get fined too much, but they won't go to jail and shoot up a rambo rampage.
By people abusing I mean that some people with abuse it decide that people will go 'I NEED weed now so im'ma steal some nad hope to be successful, one thing leads to another there's a fight and one of them is likely to get seriously injured or even die.
I'm not saying pot is bad by legalizing within a snap makes stuff get off of hand.
Prohibition of alcohol was the best thing that ever happened to organized crime in this country. They were forced into harder substances, once it was legalized again.
If Marijuana were legalized, allowed to be sold in stores, and taxed like any other crop, the cartels wouldn't be making any money on it.
If farmers are growing it legally, then there would never be a need for illegal marijuana.
The issue isn't whether or not marijuana should be legal (it shouldn't be); its whether or not alcohol should be legal. If alcohol and nicotine were discovered today, they would be banned substances. Just like marijuana and other drugs. However, alcohol has such a hold on society, it will not be banned.
Alcohol has been a social lubricant for thousands of years. For every one bad story of an idiot doing something drunk, there are a thousand other stories of people having a good time, and hurting no one. Of course, the good stories don't make the news, now do they?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
All these studies about drunk driving, domestic violence, etc regarding marijuana are VERY FLAWED. Most people are what are called "poly" drug users. Meaning, they use several different drugs, including alcohol. When you pull someone over and they have been drinking, that is easy to spot. The smell, the actions, etc. Its not so easy to spot someone who has also been smoking marijuana and/or using other drugs. A breath test, doesn't show drug use. And most people are smart enought to know, I don't want to go to court with alcohol, meth, and marijuana in my system. So, I'll just take a breath test.
Drunk driving, domestic violence, etc? You aren't around many pot smokers are you? I'm more worried about getting a nutty buddy out of the fridge, than I am slapping someone around. I'd probably die laughing if someone tried to irritate me.
The smell of marijuana is quite distinct, and the actions are the same. Blood tests show accurate levels of Marijuana intoxication. I don't advocate driving while on the substance, but there are tests, with reasonable suspicion, that law enforcement can use to test for marijuana.
Also, did you know that the most widely used police tool for DUI, isn't a breathalyzer, its the sobriety test? The same sobriety test that shows impairment on marijuana as well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
Domestic violence and marijuana? I've been a police officer for 20 yrs. I am telling you, i've seen plenty of DV involving people who have used marijuana; both the victim and suspect. I've also seen much DV over the marijuana itself. Along with: murders, assaults, rapes, et al.
Well, studies show that you're wrong. I guess your just the ONE cop in the world who has issues.
Care to provide accurate, fact based, statistics that we can see, that we can follow up on, to prove this?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
The simple fact of the matter is this: People who advocate the legalization of marijuana, do so, because they want to use the drug themselves, without a stigma attached too it. They want it to be legal, so they, themselves, aren't breaking the law. They could care less if it will cause higher taxes and increased crime. As long as they do not have to face a criminal prosecution.
No, I don't give a damn if people know I smoke pot at my home. I don't advertise it, but I don't deny it when asked about it either.
And actually, it will lower taxes, because we won't have to provide for law enforcement for non violent offenses. Also, it would decrease prison size, which lowers taxes. COUNTLESS other ways it would be financially beneficial to legalize it.
No, I don't want to go to jail, but I shouldn't go to jail, for doing something in my home, that hurts no one, that I enjoy.
1. You say it is just as addictive as nicotine? Fine, why don't you prove that for us.
2. Let say that it was, does that mean we should should have a tobacco prohibition too then?
3. Your oxycotin argument is totally flawed. Marijuana IS legal by prescription in many states already. The reason marijuana is surrounded by criminal activities is because it is illegal in many states and illegal without a physicians approval in others. Putting people in jail for selling marijuana does not change consumption since the jailed pot dealer will soon be replaced by another. Prohibition of pot CREATES crime, not the opposite.
Do you have any idea how much money we spend on law enforcement and jails in conncetion with a plant that we can grow in our backyard and that is far safer to smoke than ingesting alcohol? The whole thing is completely ludicrous.
You would think that people who are writing on internet forums would be technical enough to do some simple web research about pot and learn how to deal with facts.
I did do this since life experiences are not considered facts on this forum. If you look back at some of my other posts you can find the websites. But, regardless for every website that supports my opinion there is another that will rebut it.
The issue isn't whether or not marijuana should be legal (it shouldn't be); its whether or not alcohol should be legal. If alcohol and nicotine were discovered today, they would be banned substances. Just like marijuana and other drugs. However, alcohol has such a hold on society, it will not be banned.
All these studies about drunk driving, domestic violence, etc regarding marijuana are VERY FLAWED. Most people are what are called "poly" drug users. Meaning, they use several different drugs, including alcohol. When you pull someone over and they have been drinking, that is easy to spot. The smell, the actions, etc. Its not so easy to spot someone who has also been smoking marijuana and/or using other drugs. A breath test, doesn't show drug use. And most people are smart enought to know, I don't want to go to court with alcohol, meth, and marijuana in my system. So, I'll just take a breath test.
Domestic violence and marijuana? I've been a police officer for 20 yrs. I am telling you, i've seen plenty of DV involving people who have used marijuana; both the victim and suspect. I've also seen much DV over the marijuana itself. Along with: murders, assaults, rapes, et al.
The simple fact of the matter is this: People who advocate the legalization of marijuana, do so, because they want to use the drug themselves, without a stigma attached too it. They want it to be legal, so they, themselves, aren't breaking the law. They could care less if it will cause higher taxes and increased crime. As long as they do not have to face a criminal prosecution.
The issue isn't whether or not marijuana should be legal (it shouldn't be); its whether or not alcohol should be legal.
What? You are now changing state policy on us? The issue IS whether or not marijuana should be legal, period.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
If alcohol and nicotine were discovered today, they would be banned substances. Just like marijuana and other drugs. However, alcohol has such a hold on society, it will not be banned.
Not sure if you are working on assumptions or with a crystal ball?
Who is to say that tobacco or beer would be banned if they were discovered today, you? Nostredamus? I have heard similar statements made about coffee beans. Meaning, all previously discovered substances are only working on a grandfather clause but should have been banned if discovered today because modern man is enlightened and would never consider such harmful product to enter his body. Totally ridiculous!
But either way, that statement is completely irrelevant since alcohol, marijuana and tobacco were all discovered long, long ago.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
All these studies about drunk driving, domestic violence, etc regarding marijuana are VERY FLAWED. Most people are what are called "poly" drug users. Meaning, they use several different drugs, including alcohol. When you pull someone over and they have been drinking, that is easy to spot. The smell, the actions, etc. Its not so easy to spot someone who has also been smoking marijuana and/or using other drugs. A breath test, doesn't show drug use. And most people are smart enought to know, I don't want to go to court with alcohol, meth, and marijuana in my system. So, I'll just take a breath test.
What studies are you talking about? After you show them to us, could you please show us where they are flawed and why.
I guess you are saying that most people who smoke marijuana also use other drugs at the same time. If that is the case I would like to see something that proves this. But that would still not make the point for you since you seem bent on proving your point by stating that people should not drive while under the influence. Who is saying that legalization of marijuana is in support of DUI? What is VERY FLAWED here are your arguments.
While apples and oranges can both be purchased in the fruit section of the supermarket, they are, in fact, not the same.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
Domestic violence and marijuana? I've been a police officer for 20 yrs. I am telling you, i've seen plenty of DV involving people who have used marijuana; both the victim and suspect. I've also seen much DV over the marijuana itself. Along with: murders, assaults, rapes, et al.
What you fail to prove with your example is the marijuana CREATES violent behavior. There are no studies that will support this claim, period. There are, however, studies that show that people were violent when they smokes marijuana with a combination of alcohol. But again, apples and oranges.
If one simply goes on personal experience I could site cases where violence was involved with the use of coffee, ice cream and cheap cologne. But does that mean that those things were the CAUSE of the violence?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phil306
The simple fact of the matter is this: People who advocate the legalization of marijuana, do so, because they want to use the drug themselves, without a stigma attached too it. They want it to be legal, so they, themselves, aren't breaking the law. They could care less if it will cause higher taxes and increased crime. As long as they do not have to face a criminal prosecution.
Blanket statement that pretends to know the motives of all people with a different view. These kinds of outbursts only makes you look silly and uninformed; unless, of course, you have spoken to all who advocate for legalization.
However, I could EASILY turn that one around on YOU. Keeping it illegal will ensure employment for many, many people in law enforcement, which is interesting since you stated that you have been a police officer for 20 years. Prohibition of marijuana employs thousands of police officers, prosecutors and correctional officers; and, at the same time it creates crime and makes drug dealers rich.
I dont smoke weed anymore but I stilll think it should be legalized. Every pot smoker I know is a pretty happy person...and it relieves stress. In todays world we need some kind of relief from the miserable day to day grind. Not everyone is rich enough to take weekend trips to the Bahamas to get away from it all.lll
If pot was legalized we would be much better off. We would make money (the states) and there would be less people in prison and jail, saving the state even more money. Not to mention the cartels would be out of business.
But one reason they do not legalize drugs is too many people would be out of jobs. Just think of the countless number of P.O.s, S.O.s, police, judges, prison guards etc who wouldn't be needed anymore. Drugs are job security!!
Holland is in Europe tho. If a place like the US or Canada legalized then the crime runs rampant and crime increases because of the Cartels.
Ok, see if I understand this correctly. The US cannot be compared to Holland because it is in Europe. And Europe cannot be compared to the US because they do not have Cartels. Therefore, the non-existence of Cartels in Europe makes any comparison of marijuana impossible?
I mean, really?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartacusTheSpartan
But if you decriminalize (Like it is in Amsterdam [Myth that's it's legalized]) then you make money off it and crime can't go very far because they'll get fined too much, but they won't go to jail and shoot up a rambo rampage.
Hmmm….I read this several times but not sure I understand. But I guess that you are for decriminalization then since that would keep people from “shooting up a rambo rampage”?
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpartacusTheSpartan
By people abusing I mean that some people with abuse it decide that people will go 'I NEED weed now so im'ma steal some nad hope to be successful, one thing leads to another there's a fight and one of them is likely to get seriously injured or even die.
I'm not saying pot is bad by legalizing within a snap makes stuff get off of hand.
OK, if you legalize it someone will really, really want some which means that they would steal, get into a fight and there will be injuries and death. And all this comes if you “legalize within a snap”?
No support for that argument, sorry. Is that what happened when they ended prohibition of alcohol? If your theory is correct that should have happened since alcohol is FAR MORE likely to lead to violence that marijuana. But since it didn’t happen with alcohol it would be fair to say that it will not happen when the prohibition of marijuana is ended.
But how do you legalize something more slowly then?
Why do people need to use/legalize mind altering drugs anyway? Just live sober! Seriously, get off the drug crutch.
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