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Old 10-03-2009, 09:23 PM
 
3,562 posts, read 5,224,171 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wingfoot View Post
Obviously ,one would assume that any reasonable person would know the pro-fathers arguements assume that all is "everything else being equal.""

You don't know the real facts till their elder years folks.

What facts? You have facts?

Well, break 'em out.
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Old 10-03-2009, 09:40 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,643,401 times
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As long as the parents are not abusive, it is preferable for the child to have continual access to them. Maybe kids should go to work with a parent, and work beside them for several hours a day. I don't know.

I was watching a TV show on NatGeo, called Taboo. Here in the U.S., incarcerated mothers don't keep their children with them. But in one country (I think it was in the former Soviet Union.), children stay with their mothers, even in jail, up until the age of 5 or 6.
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Old 10-03-2009, 09:46 PM
 
Location: Sandpoint, Idaho
3,007 posts, read 6,284,608 times
Reputation: 3310
Quote:
Originally Posted by KeraKera View Post
I was raised by a single mother and she did a great job raising me. I have turned out to be a respectable, professional person; however, as I got older, I began missing my father. There was a void there no one fill but him. He was 'around' but not in the household. We have a great relationship now and I remember him telling me something that struck me. One day I fessed up to him some very painful and embarrassing segments of my life when I was very young and even up to college. He said with a sigh, 'I am so sorry I wasn't around more. If I were, I really believe the things you've been through could've been avoided if I were there to guide you.'

I strongly believe that it is crucial and critical to have the patriarch in the home. Whenever I discuss this with some women, they totally dismiss the father's importance in the home. It's almost like you have to prove why they are necessary. I've never had anyone downplay the importance of a mother in the home, so why fathers?
The question is not whether single parents can raise good children but whether tone-parent households offer as likely odds for a good childhood as compared with two parent households. There will always be exceptional people on the good side and monsters on the bad side.

Were my wife not here, the burden would treble overnight and put the squeeze on me in terms in a multitude of directions. The question then is how I would respond and the quality of life of the kids that will result.

This raises of the question of whether the nature of the single parenthood is probabilistically relevant to the healthy and happy upbringing of the child. A child of a acrimonious divorce is likely to have a different outlook on life compared to those who were created or adopted for the purpose of filling a void.

Additionally, in all this, there is a means test. Single parents with lots of coin, especially inherited money, have the luxury to ignore the marketplace. However, for most, it is the market and the need to provide for the child that generates the bulk of the pressure.

Finally, there is the nature of the marriage that created the child(ren). 50% of marriages end in divorce and a good % of surviving marriages should have been concluded with a divorce. Often, the two incomes cannot compensate for couples clueless as to how play the team game.

All things considered, my default is to consider the best parents as being independent of whether they are from one or two parent households. Rather, it is more important to examine their psychological make-up, the parental perspective as to why they have children, their education their income, and their belief system.

S.
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Old 10-03-2009, 09:58 PM
 
Location: Bradenton, Florida
27,232 posts, read 46,643,401 times
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If I were a single parent, I'd find it difficult to reconcile the two most important factors--the need to be there to watch over the child, and the need to earn money to provide for the child financially. For its food, and its shelter.

So, if I was in a position where I was the sole parent, I would find it necessary to provide it with a two parent home, even if that meant giving the child up for adoption.

Thankfully, I'll never be in that position.
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:34 AM
 
1,340 posts, read 2,803,523 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
If the father is an abuser, wouldn't you be better off with his abuse?
Yes, as you would be without a mother is one.

This is so elementary it is taken for granted.
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Old 10-04-2009, 09:48 AM
 
Location: Elsewhere
88,525 posts, read 84,705,921 times
Reputation: 115010
Quote:
Originally Posted by TKramar View Post
If I were a single parent, I'd find it difficult to reconcile the two most important factors--the need to be there to watch over the child, and the need to earn money to provide for the child financially. For its food, and its shelter.

So, if I was in a position where I was the sole parent, I would find it necessary to provide it with a two parent home, even if that meant giving the child up for adoption.

Thankfully, I'll never be in that position.
It's not that simplistic. I divorced my daughter's father ten years ago, when she was eight. She has expressed her gratitude to me for that. Meanwhile, he did muster up enough sense to make something better out of himself for her sake, so they do have a good relationship--and she knows herself exactly what he is and what his limitations are by her own observation. Her father and I also get along civilly, which makes a big difference.

Meanwhile, my daughter grew up in an extended-family home, with grandparents, a great-grandparent, an uncle and a cousin. Those other people contributed toward the person she became, not just me.
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Old 10-04-2009, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,936,034 times
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If we all really put our heads together, we could collectively come with a list of at least a thousand things that would promote a more favorable outcome to child rearing, and having a father figure present would only be one of them.

I can think of several that would be even more "crucial". Household money. A child is worse off growing up in debilitating poverty, than fatherless. Books. A child is worse off growing up in a home where there is never any reading material, than fatherless. Health and hygeine. A child is worse off growing up in a home where there is no concern for health and hygeing, than fatherless.

I suspect that everyone here agrees that having a father is somewhat helpful and favorable in a majority of cases, but it is not the most important thing. Aside from that, we've basically had 106 personal anecdotes.
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Old 10-07-2009, 08:36 AM
 
Location: where the moss is taking over the villages
2,184 posts, read 5,549,390 times
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I say 2 people or more are ideal for raising chidren.

I was raised by a single mother & I grew up to raise my children as a single mother. Over 30 years of observation I've realized that society hates single parent households. Other parents & even the schools (the parents in the office who help with everything know which kids are from single households) are prejudiced against children with single parents. I've seen it & can give examples but it's a long story full of very strong feelings & observations.

I believe children need 2 people to enforce the household rules. Children need the good cop/bad cop thing. I don't like the scenario of gays raising children. However that's because I believe it's hard for children to feel "different" based on the differences between their own houses & the houses of their peers.

I was in a single parent household as a child. We were poor. I hated the differences between our lifestyle & that of my peers... I was a chronological peer but not an economical peer.

Also, my mother was handicapped. She had a brain injury from a car accident at the age of 32 & had slurred & halting speech. No one ever gave her a chance to show what she was really made of. This is a woman with perfect grammar & a gifted vocabulary but she sounded a bit like a drunk after her initial recovery. It took years to become easier for others to understand her. I saw her shunned by her peers for decades.

I didn't like having a mother who was "different"... I think it could be hard for children of gays for this reason unless they have a good support network. Personally, I find the idea less than attractive just because I, as a woman, can't imagine pairing up with another woman. But that isn't my proclivity so I realize it isn't for me to judge. It isn't a crime but it is wierd in my mind.

A child will only think it's wierd if/when society shows that judgement. Children, without any bias forced on them, don't care a whit about sexuality (private sexuality of course, in the context of good taste). So gay parenting isn't bad, it's just something that is now considered mainstream & we must accept it... I'm still getting accustomed to the concept. In Eugene, I see it & it's a fair assumption to say I've seen good parenting in action among gay parents.

I think if single parents could "co-parent" somehow, without a sexual relationship, like in a communal sense, that would be effective.

I do believe that pressure coming from different directions, such as in a 2 parent household, is definitely beneficial for a child. It would have been for me. I was a "troublemaking" child.

I say 2 is better than one - it's a ton of work for one person. A network of more people is better than 2. I don't know if it matters about the gender... I would think a boy would benefit from male guidance but that doesn't have to be IN the home, does it?

Kate
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:36 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,936,034 times
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I'm going to throw out a challenging idea. I think having a grandparent in the home is more important than having a father.

A grandparent would bring an additional 25 years of accumulated wisdom into the home. Plus another 25 years of historical worldview into the home. A grandparent would be a person that has a different kind of relationship to the children, beside the parent relationship, of which there is already one. A grandparent, because of our society's natural tendency to respect elders, would foster a new dimension of sharing dignity, requiring a different kind of respect. A grandparent would deepen the support system. At the same time, a grandparent, if old enough, would dilute the child's "spoilage", because the grandparent would need care, too, and the child would at times be a caregiver.

Many societies still live and raise children in multi-generational households, sometimes 4 or 5 generations under one roof. I think there is a great advantage to the development of children to grow up that way. A child would benefit by growing up in a house hold with his mother, grandparents, maybe a great grandparen, and perhaps even an aunt or uncle. Which would make the father somewhat redundant. It's a very old fashioned idea, but it served us well for thousands of years.
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Old 10-07-2009, 09:45 AM
 
Location: GA
1,241 posts, read 1,894,785 times
Reputation: 1280
It is important to have a father in the home just as important it is to have a mother. Why do you think it takes 2 genders to make a baby?
For a little girl a mother teaches you how to become a woman.
A father in the home teaches you how to demand respect and carry yourself as a lady. He's the man who gets to intimidate your dates and can see through your boyfriends and tell you who means you well and who doesn't. He's that safety and security when you sleep at night to know daddy is protecting all and everything is okay.
A father also shows his love for his wife so you grow up understand how to be treated as a woman. Hopefully the relationship is healthy. He sets the example for the type of man you seek based on your love for him.

If you think a father is not just as important as having a mother then check out the crime rate, teenage pregnancy rates, std's among those younger than 18, and gang activity of 40 years ago compared to today.
These single mother households are not cutting it, especially for young black men. They need to spend their time helping their fathers to change a tire, change the oil and not spend their time in the nail shop and salon with their mom's.

Two Movies prove my point: Where God Left His Shoes?
(I remember a scene where her husband went to look for work while they were at a shelter and his wife had a little boy. He left his wife and girl at the shelter and told the little boy to come with him. I thought it was powerful because as a man you are typically the provider and even as a child you should not be taught to lay around and receive the benefits, you have to be accustomed ot making it happy for your family because they (ladies) are counting on you.)

Boyz In The Hood: I loved it when Vivica Fox told her son she loved him but she could not teach him to be a man. I also loved it when he first got to his fathers house and his father told him to rake the leaves off the lawn and don't give him any funny looks when he's told to do something. His father also told him that he was doing this for his own good and he would see the difference later in life from his friends who didn't have fathers there. It was so true. 10+ years later he's preparing for college and the others are gangsters.
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