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I am just curious to get everyone's thoughts on a touchy subject I suppose. When do we learn to let go with out elderly?
I work at a heart monitoring company and I walk them through how to use it and get everything set up and activated, etc. There are so many people, that IMO, whom do not need to be on this. It's just, there's sooooo much Medicare being wasted on pickling these people to live another day.
There are times I call someone..and they are 95..and living in a nursing home. What's the point? Why does it matter to "have this person live a little bit longer?"..when there are people whom DO have more time and deserve it more.
I've had someone who was 99 and was on the monitor to determine if they needed a ****in pacemaker!! What's the POINT?!!
Here are my thoughts: It's not so much about age. It's about..their overall health. There are times I speak with someone who is like 94 and they are alive and kicking it! They are with it. They are ALL there. They are capable of helping themselves... so shouldn't money be spent more on THOSE people who may have another 10 years left rather than letting someone live for another year---even though they are practically in a coma 24/7?!
I agree with you, and it's why I'm not against some triaging.
I've always been very disturbed by the increasing push in our society to extend lives longer and longer. Some live better (healthier) but for many others it's merely extending their illnesses even longer.
I had a heart-bypass when I was young. However, if the time comes for one when I'm in my 80's, chances are good that I won't accept it.
"Pickling" seniors? It seems more like they are being "harvested."
Many seniors have worked their entire lives to build up savings. They are flush with cash and fat insurance policies. Then they get sick. More money is spent on health care in their final few years than in all the rest of their life leading up to that time. The health care industry is harvesting them.
I had to watch my father die of cancer over a four year period to understand this completely, but I agree with you. There are a huge number of medical and home health services being marketed out there for people with advanced cancer. From a medical standpoint there is surgery, chemotherapy, and radiation therapy. Dad had all of them before passing away. He had one surgery that the government paid for via Medicare and private insurance that probably cost $200,000. From a home health standpoint there is home health care and hospice. All the services that I have mentioned have a place. However, that doesn't mean that every patient should be getting every service and maxing out the government benefit that is available either.
The reality is that the vast, vast majority of people with stage IV cancer (spread to other organs and tissues) are going to die within one to five years. All the cancer treatments they have today can't stop that from occurring. Five year survival rates on stage IV cancer are very low--about 5%.
I really think, we as a country, have to come to grips with the notion that we can't just spend an unlimited budget on these services. I think there is a difference between "throwing the elderly under the bus" and imposing some limitations on these services based on how effective they are for each patient. Perhaps, an independent panel of doctors and other providers could make this determination? I think its wrong, for example, for the doctor who wants to do the surgery to make the determination.
I felt, in the end, Dad received marginal benefits from many expensive services that primarily benefitted the people providing them. I would never deny hospice, or pain relief, to any suffering person, but even this needs to be improved. I felt it was more about giving a check to a doctor, a nurse, and a social worker than helping Dad--the way it was run.
That is one of the reasons why it is very important to write up a legal document that states exactly how we want to die. Do we want to be put on life support? These are things that even if you were in your right mind while you were in the ER and you could make this decision rapidly, you still want that piece of paper somewhere written by you years ago when you certainly were in your right mind, stating that "I want X, Y and Z to happen in case I become incapacitated."
If everyone did this, it removes the burden of the family for the guilt of either keeping a loved one alive or letting them pass. The decision is our own. No one should be able to change that.
I completely agree and you know what? The Obama Healthcare Plans called for that and people went crazy. I think that's where the whole "death panel thing started. All they were trying to do was get people to make a Living Will, so that we could prevent situations where someone is on lifesupport for weeks because there is no legal power to remove them. That's a no-brainer for most people. Yet, we have a percentage of this country that is so paranoid about government they see this as the beginning of euthenasia. Pretty sad....
The whole concept of employer based Health Insurance is outdated and one of the major reasons we are not competitive on the world market. Most Employers would welcome Medicare for All
What kind of competition Boompa? The kind where you tell 80 people from India who have jobs to come to the US and then lock them up in a factory to make pipes for oil, like in Tulsa? Or perhaps, the Firestone plant in Liberia? Does $3.19 a day cut the mustard here? That is not competition. That is called exploitation. Microsoft pays those in prison under a dollar a day to take care of plastic wrapping products.
From reading all these posts, it just confirms that when my time nears to meet my Maker, I'm getting as far away from People as I can. In case someone decides he knows what's best for me, or when I'm no longer worthy of life.--I think somebody already has that job, but hey.
You know, I don't blame you. We place no value on humans. We are nothing but commodities. We have no respect for humans in general. We turn around and look at heinous murders and wonder why or gang shootings.
You know, I don't blame you. We place no value on humans. We are nothing but commodities. We have no respect for humans in general. We turn around and look at heinous murders and wonder why or gang shootings.
This just looks cleaner.
What seems to be missed in this dicussion is--that is not our job to pass judgement of any kind on otheres. We are here to live our lives to the best of our ability. In the end, our caskit, is built for one. We come in alone, we go out alone. Everything in between is window dressing.
I am just curious to get everyone's thoughts on a touchy subject I suppose. When do we learn to let go with out elderly?
I work at a heart monitoring company and I walk them through how to use it and get everything set up and activated, etc. There are so many people, that IMO, whom do not need to be on this. It's just, there's sooooo much Medicare being wasted on pickling these people to live another day.
There are times I call someone..and they are 95..and living in a nursing home. What's the point? Why does it matter to "have this person live a little bit longer?"..when there are people whom DO have more time and deserve it more.
I've had someone who was 99 and was on the monitor to determine if they needed a ****in pacemaker!! What's the POINT?!!
Here are my thoughts: It's not so much about age. It's about..their overall health. There are times I speak with someone who is like 94 and they are alive and kicking it! They are with it. They are ALL there. They are capable of helping themselves... so shouldn't money be spent more on THOSE people who may have another 10 years left rather than letting someone live for another year---even though they are practically in a coma 24/7?!
Quality of life means different things to different people and we often cannot judge for another person. For instance, I am a very low maintenance kind of person myself and when I am old and grey, I don't think I would have any problem living in a nursing home (aside from the quality of food they have there). For someone who loves the outdoors and loves to be active, it would be a different story. So I guess what I am saying is that we cannot judge whether these people are happy with their lives or not. Just because it is not the sort of life we would choose for ourselves, they may be perfectly happy and content living that way.
Another issue that you have to consider is that if this is, as you say, "not a question of age", then you have to apply it fairly across the board. In other words, if there is a young person living in a nursing home with multiple health conditions which significantly impact his/her quality of life, then they need to be treated the same way that an elderly person would in the same position. My experience has been that younger people *always* get preferential treatment and so enforcing this to be FAIR for every one would be impossible, and so eventually, it's GOING to come down to the age issue.
The fact of the matter is that elder people do not HAVE to live like this. Prior to the medical profession taking "control" of our lives, elderly people lived long, valuable, happy lives and then often had a very sudden and unexpected death. It was not until the aged people started receiving Medicare that they suddenly became a HUGE revenue stream for doctors which resulted in their NON-STOP medication and treatment. If MANY of the people who are in this so-called coma you mention would simply stop taking the umpteen jillion pills that they take on a daily basis, their quality of life would improve dramatically. But the doctors will not hear of that.
I believe that the elderly in this country are very valuable resource and very important to provide the knowledge and experience that is necessary so that people do not continue to make the same mistakes. However, until the are treated with the respect and care that they deserve and stop being considered only for their financial value to the AMA, things aren't going to get better.
Being a relatively young 63, I'll say right now, "don't no body worry about letting me go" That decision is between me and my Maker. Folks can go busy themselves with other more pressing issues. If I want yer help, I'll ask for it. Until then, don't be unplugging nothin.
I couldn't agree more. When it is time for me to "go" it will be my decision to make. Keep me plugged in for 50 years for all I care. I hear that people in comas have wonderful dreams. Sounds like fun to me. LOL
IMHO------the worst leeches are the ones who prey on terminally ill cancer patients.
Yup, just a few more treatments , a little more false hope, a couple more hundred thousand $$$$$, and you can buy yourself an extra month of miserable living.
I've seen so darn much extortion of terminally ill friends by the medical profession by giving out false hope to terminally ill patients and sucking every last dollar out of them
They can always say no.
Besides, too many people put too much hope into doctors who really have nothing to offer someone who they have labled "terminal". That is so sad. There is always hope, but you have to seek out your own care and treatment that will make you better. Spending time and money on traditional doctors is just a waste of both. There are LEGIONS of accounts of people who have not only survived but RECOVERED long after their medical doctors had written them off as terminal. I know a few, and I'll bet you do too.
20yrsinBranson
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