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That would have been a better way. That is the reason I started this thread. Maybe I didn't know how to phrase it.
Then bring it. Do not talk to me like I am stupid, I have block, just like you do. i recognize it, just like you do.
Talk to me. You don't have to teach me.
*I* already know about race and cj.*I* have statistics.
What do you have for me? I do not need to be "educated". I have all that. Where are you in relation to me? What do you have to say to me?
*****
If this means so much, and your not trolling, and you truly want dialog, I am right here and waiting on you. Your bennie is you do not have to start at the beginning.
Last edited by Pandamonium; 11-22-2009 at 12:18 PM..
In your fairly short OP, you had already made two assertions that remain to be explored. I've already addressed the one about rejecting IQ as a factor. You also said correlation is not causation---but sometimes it IS. You can't throw out correlation with a blanket assumption, because in some cases, causation can be found by exploring correlation.
You have started out with the assumption that A) blacks have the same intelligence as whites, and B) blacks are not the cause of the correlation, in spite of some evidence to the contrary of both. And then you ask us for productive dialogue.
I have learned with time, that no two People are the same. And that is how I address them. As individuals, not as groups of anything.
No two persons are alike. I agree. We are alll human beings in that aspect. No two cases are the same. Certain ethnic groups have been treated unfairly and many reasons, many individuals are dealing with many issues. We should deal with things on not only the individual level, but go into all of the communities and find solutions that help all of the individuals. It starts on the individual level. Start there and go up from there. There is one thing to think about. There some things that effect many people at one time. Case in point, the decline of the industrial base.
I like to believe I have quite a few good friends. If any five of us get together, we can't agree on anything. so why bother? --It's not like I need reinforcement in my beliefs. I believe the way I believe from experience. I allow others the respect to also believe how ever they choose. No skin off my nose.
I'm guessing that this is another oppertunity for us laymen to sound off on the problems of society. Without giving due credit to the myriad of evidence that has already been offered in the conclusions of various studies regarding crime and it's causes, we'll be beating a dead horse.
Sociologist's have been looking at crime as an outcome of social stratification and the persistent inequality that has been a consequence of such class divisions. You can look at the base stats of criminals and come to the same conclusions. Yes, personal responsibility is certainly lacking in so much of our fellow citizens lives, but, what creates that lacking? Good work habits are definitely a must if one is to advance in our society, but where do we get the motovation to have a strong work ethic?
If you answered those two questions by stating that we learn these things at home you'd be right of course, but, to have a good home is not a possibility for everyone in America, and neither is having a job. Those from the lowest economic classes have traditionally had the least to lose from engaging in criminal behavior, our lowest economic class is made up of Black's and Mexican's, and poor whites, of course our prison populace looks to be from those same groups.
I realize it isn't popular any longer to state these obvious connections between crime and it's causes, but then the popular notions are hardly ever the result of lengthy study, instead we have pre packaged opinions that can be had from listening to the Guru's of radio and TV. My opinion has no weight to it at all, same for the totality of opinions offered here, I do know the futility of reinventing the wheel though, and for that reason I'll stick to the evidence presented by those who have put their hearts and heads to the task of answering one of our most pressing questions, why is it that.......
I don't look to third party studies to make my determinations. I use my own life experiences. I can trust those, cause I was there. who knows what some other person experiences were. Or their relevance to my own.--I'm one man, not a committee.
Yes, personal responsibility is certainly lacking in so much of our fellow citizens lives, but, what creates that lacking? Good work habits are definitely a must if one is to advance in our society, but where do we get the motovation to have a strong work ethic?
Over the course to doing two long investigative pieces I sat and observed a number of drug dealers in southern Florida, I never saw a lack of personal responsibility of a lack of work ethic, just that their idea of who they owed their responsibility to and what they considered to be legitimate work is just very different.
If anyone wants to have glimpse of what I saw, besides the reading the published pieces that I worked on (which is out of the question since then I would have to reveal my true to life identity) I would strongly suggest watching The Wire. David Simon's seminal series on life in inner-city Baltimore. It is priceless, and about as accurate a depiction of the inner-city "criminal mind-set" as one can get without experiencing it yourself.
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