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Old 11-29-2009, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
Reputation: 36644

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chatteress View Post
You have valid points as younger children should be allowed to play sports just for the fun of it and to develop their sportsmanship and teamwork skills. Once they reach a certain age, we can then include competitions, etc.
One thing that has been overlooked so far. Competitiveness and keeping score is essential to learning about cheating. If you don't keep score, and it doesn't matter who wins, then it doesn't matter if anyone cheats or not, right?

Is it important at a young age to learn to play by the rules, and to understand what the rules are. You learn not to cheat when you see what it like to lose because somebody cheated, and you see that it is more fun to play when nobody cheats and somebody wins and they win without cheating.

Also, most children's games are cooperative team efforts. That sense of cooperativeness is eroded when you place the emphasis on every kid getting an equal chance to play, instead of every kid being a part of a unified playing unit that is structured for success.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:08 AM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,769 posts, read 40,163,673 times
Reputation: 18095
I asked my boyfriend about "the red pen of death" and he laughed. While he also had never heard of the term, he didn't think getting red pen marks on his schoolwork was any big deal. Sure, it make him mad to see them, but it also got him to correct his mistakes and strive for perfect homework with no red marks. And keep in mind, my boyfriend struggled with his homework as he had ADD and didn't want to be on medication. He organized his day with sticky notes and made sure that by the end of the day, he had no sticky notes of things left to do.

He also pointed out that red is a great contrasting colour on the paper, and when the majority of people are writing or printing with black ink or dark blue, red ink just shows up really well.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Victoria TX
42,554 posts, read 86,954,125 times
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When the teacher was handing back test papers, we always tried to sneak a peak at everyone's to see how much red there was. When I was a teacher, grading papers, it was a lot easier to count the red marks.
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Old 11-29-2009, 01:33 PM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 4,461,525 times
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I have become a believer in "Positive reinforcement," and to not worry so much about mistakes. Kids, and dogs, react better that way. Reward good behavior, and point out mistakes, but don't focus on them. Kids will gravitate toward the good behavior all on their own, if they see there is a reward for it. Once a Child reaches a level of self awareness, they will ignore punishment, and actually start to develop a disdain for those that are punishing them. Kids are People, just small ones.
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Old 11-29-2009, 03:58 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,769 posts, read 40,163,673 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thaskateguy View Post
I have become a believer in "Positive reinforcement," and to not worry so much about mistakes. Kids, and dogs, react better that way. Reward good behavior, and point out mistakes, but don't focus on them. Kids will gravitate toward the good behavior all on their own, if they see there is a reward for it. Once a Child reaches a level of self awareness, they will ignore punishment, and actually start to develop a disdain for those that are punishing them. Kids are People, just small ones.
Ummm.... kids and dogs are completely different!! Dogs don't have the thinking capacity of a human being. Dogs don't have memory and don't have our language skills. Training dogs and teaching children are completely different tasks.

So you do a disservice to children by treating them like... dogs. There is no reason to treat children as if they only have the brain capacity of a dog. I hope you don't have kids.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:36 PM
 
Location: Mid-Atlantic
32,931 posts, read 36,341,370 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Ummm.... kids and dogs are completely different!! Dogs don't have the thinking capacity of a human being. Dogs don't have memory and don't have our language skills. Training dogs and teaching children are completely different tasks.

So you do a disservice to children by treating them like... dogs. There is no reason to treat children as if they only have the brain capacity of a dog. I hope you don't have kids.
I've had kids and dogs and, I have to say, there is a similarity. Sit means sit, no means no, eat your dinner you're not getting anything else, don't look at me that way. Of course, little children outgrow the pet commands and parents must adapt and use reason...until the children become teenagers...when no means no, don't look at me that way. I wish that my teenager would heel.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:50 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,769 posts, read 40,163,673 times
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When children are young, of course they should want to do well in school to please their parents. But it's never too early to also give them other reasons to want to learn, such as giving them role model goals. Even kindergarten age children play act being firemen and doctors.

On the other hand, we use positive reinforcement and treats in training dogs, as we can't explain to and reason with them why they have to behave themselves for us. I can't have conversations with my dogs as to why their barks disturb the neighbors or why they can't eat chocolate.
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Old 11-29-2009, 04:54 PM
miu
 
Location: MA/NH
17,769 posts, read 40,163,673 times
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Anyway, the human brain works better being exercised and challenged regularly. It shouldn't be coddled. As it is, a young brain is much better at learning languages and music than a more mature brain.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:24 PM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 4,461,525 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jtur88 View Post
One thing that has been overlooked so far. Competitiveness and keeping score is essential to learning about cheating. If you don't keep score, and it doesn't matter who wins, then it doesn't matter if anyone cheats or not, right?

Is it important at a young age to learn to play by the rules, and to understand what the rules are. You learn not to cheat when you see what it like to lose because somebody cheated, and you see that it is more fun to play when nobody cheats and somebody wins and they win without cheating.

Also, most children's games are cooperative team efforts. That sense of cooperativeness is eroded when you place the emphasis on every kid getting an equal chance to play, instead of every kid being a part of a unified playing unit that is structured for success.
I thought keeping score, was to determine who scored the most runs. Or made the most points. I never considered "Sportsmanship" to be about cheating. Maybe I misread your post.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:28 PM
 
Location: Houston/Heights
2,637 posts, read 4,461,525 times
Reputation: 977
Quote:
Originally Posted by miu View Post
Ummm.... kids and dogs are completely different!! Dogs don't have the thinking capacity of a human being. Dogs don't have memory and don't have our language skills. Training dogs and teaching children are completely different tasks.

So you do a disservice to children by treating them like... dogs. There is no reason to treat children as if they only have the brain capacity of a dog. I hope you don't have kids.
my point being, that even with a dogs limited mental capacity, I can control them, with out striking them. If I can do that with a dog, why would I not be able to do at least that much with a larger brained Human Child.--- I can, and I have.
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