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There is where you are wrong, which is a large part of the reason why you fail to grasp fundamental principles that are required to think about things. You are imprisoned by the idea that numbers are nothing but words invented by humans to describe creation. But the numbers are fixed, absolute, and inviolable quantities, and we are powerless to do anything but name them.
"Two" is a concept of mathematics, just as "one" is a concept of mathematics that locks you into a concept of the unity or the singuality of God. If God could have made 2 to be less than 1, the Unity of God would be destroyed. One has to be a quantity equal to the number of Gods, since God and unity are identical, by definition of terms. It must be less than two, or any other quantity. "One" must be a whole number, since God is a whole thing. "Two" is just the word we use to describe the next larger whole number, "God and a hypothetical 'nother one just like him". If you define two, and all other numbers, that way, you see that God could not control their quantitative values. Each successive number represents another hypothetical God added to the rest. That denies God the power to make quantities equal to whatever he wants them to be. 2+2=5 could be true, but only if we adopt a mathematical system in which we arrange number 1 2 3 5 4 . . . But there must be numbers in God's creation, or else there could be no God with a quantity of one.
Please stop all the tiresome and childish summarizations at the end of your posts. Make your case, if you have one, and let others make theirs. You're nobody's big sister that needs to needle and tease in a debate forum.
You presume to tell me what to do!!!!! I'll tease you if I want, and you'll take it!!! Capiche!!!! Now where did I leave my knitting needles. I need to needle you some more.
As the theory goes, god could have invented or not invented anything he wanted. He could have inveted a universe without numbers. That is what all-powerful means. You are thinking too small. He didn't have to operate within the bounds of any laws of nature as you know (or think you know) them. The supposedly didn't exist until he made them exist.
Of course, since their isn't any god, all this is really an exercise in pining you to the mat, 1 - 2- 3, bammo, I win, you lose.
Here's a sympathy towel to dry your eyes with.
MahiAhiOno, Head teaser and Needler, Universe-at-Large
As the theory goes, god could have invented or not invented anything he wanted. He could have inveted a universe without numbers. That is what all-powerful means. You are thinking too small. He didn't have to operate within the bounds of any laws of nature as you know (or think you know) them. The supposedly didn't exist until he made them exist.
As the theory goes, now many Gods are/were there? How many Gods would it take to create a universe with no numbers. Remember, you can't use "one" to answer that question, because there would be no numbers in that universe. But without using the number "one", you cannot have a singular God.
As the theory goes, now many Gods are/were there? How many Gods would it take to create a universe with no numbers. Remember, you can't use "one" to answer that question, because there would be no numbers in that universe. But without using the number "one", you cannot have a singular God.
You're using the word "carrot" to represent a number, and there are no numbers in this universe for your words to represent. Try again.
You don't get it, do you.
What I am saying, and please try real hard to understand this, is that under the theory of creation, God created the universe and all that is in it. Nothing got "here" except by his creation - not numbers, not carrots, not spinach, not even a spittel-licking communist pig such as, well you know what you are.
Under that theory, numbers only exist because he created them where nothing, not gravity, not magenetism, not nuclear and sub-nuclear forces, heat etc., existed. He wasn't constrained by numbers, they exist only because he invented them. It was not even a clean sheet of paper, it wasn't even paper.
Got it so far.
That is creationism. God invented the Universe, and since numbers are part of the Universe, he created them too. He could have invented a Universe devoid of numbers if he wanted, or devoid of time, or electricity or magnetism, or any or all of the above and more. That is the theory.
In short, if it exists, according to creationism, it is because god invented it.
The problem is that life is grotesquely flawed, Human life, animal life, plant life, at the sub-cellular, celllular, tissue, organ and organism levels. I hope you understand that part. Life is messed up, grossly imperfect, full of diseases, ommisions, vulnerabilities etc. Medical science has cataloged them and you can review those imperfections by reading any book on human pathologies.
So, my point is, that the theory of an all-loving, all-powerful, all-knowing, all-seeing creator, cannot possibly account, logically, for the "get-your-money-back state of life, flawed POS that it is.
If I was a perfect architecht, engineer and builder, one wouldn't think I would build a bridge like the one they galled Galloping Gertie at Tacoma Narrows. It was so flawed, that wind created hamonics so bad that it bucked around until if fell apart. Perfection as an engineer, and the Tacoma Narrows Bridge, dont' go together.
Now, I hope you understand what I am saying, so set aside all your silly word games, wipe, or lick the spittle off your communist-pig lips and considered yourself barbecued.
MahiAhiOne, Despiser of Communists, Tyrannts and murders,
You know the bast way to handle creationists and Darwinists? Don't say "I don't know" - say "I DON'T CARE!" We don't know the answers. Believe what your heart (or mind) tells you.
You know the bast way to handle creationists and Darwinists? Don't say "I don't know" - say "I DON'T CARE!" We don't know the answers. Believe what your heart (or mind) tells you.
But we don't care. We just do this as a mental exercise.
Your coming into the discussion midway.
I already stipulated that things evolve. That is fact based on science.
It certainly is.
Quote:
I disagree with the extent to which people claim it's proven.
It's been proven many times over. The details of our own, specific evolution within the primate family has been conclusively established via endogenous retroviruses. These genetic "scars" stay in our DNA over the eons, and can (and have) been matched exactly to the same scars found in the DNA of chimps, bonobos and gorillas. That pretty much resolves the issue.
Quote:
I can say that because there are churches religion is a proven fact. Religion is an undeniable truth. You can't argue with that. It's scientifically proven.
If I take the next step and say that because religion is true therefor creation is true I've taken a leap in logic that's not supported by the evidence.
It's no different with evolution. Do things evolve? Yes. Is evolution a fact. No.
That makes no sense. Evolution can be tested and verified in a manner that religion cannot. Religion, and this includes ID, does not lend itself to falsifiable hypotheses that can be tested for validity, and when it tries to do so, it fails.
The opposite occurs with evolution. Evolution can be tested with falsifiable hypotheses. And when it is, it is validated.
Evolution is a fact, you already admitted it (then contradicted yourself). The theory of evolution is merely the explanation of the facts, and this theory has been proven valid over and over again.
Some people just do not want to accept it, because of all the things they think it means. Mostly they are wrong.
It's been proven many times over. The details of our own, specific evolution within the primate family has been conclusively established via endogenous retroviruses. These genetic "scars" stay in our DNA over the eons, and can (and have) been matched exactly to the same scars found in the DNA of chimps, bonobos and gorillas. That pretty much resolves the issue.
That makes no sense. Evolution can be tested and verified in a manner that religion cannot. Religion, and this includes ID, does not lend itself to falsifiable hypotheses that can be tested for validity, and when it tries to do so, it fails.
The opposite occurs with evolution. Evolution can be tested with falsifiable hypotheses. And when it is, it is validated.
Evolution is a fact, you already admitted it (then contradicted yourself). The theory of evolution is merely the explanation of the facts, and this theory has been proven valid over and over again.
Some people just do not want to accept it, because of all the things they think it means. Mostly they are wrong.
Okay, now I will lay the "rest of the story" on you.
People don't want to accept the Law of Evolution because it does not provide the one thing for them, the only real thing for them, that they believe in a god for in the first place. The only reason they have religion for, in the first place.
They reject the Law of Evolution because:
(Drum Roll)
It doesn't "provide" for eternal existance, life after death, eternity in the happy hunting ground in the sky, paradise forever, or as most of you know it by "heaven".
Since they don't have the stomach to face their mortality, that they were born, will live a life and die, and that upon death, their existance is finished in totality and forever, they invent religions, ALL of which incorporate eternal life after death (unless there is some obscure religion that doesn't) as part of their mythology.
Now, I offer that everyone just grow up, accept your mortality, the finaltiy and totality of death, live good, clean and productive lives (advancing freedom and fighting it's opposite (communism/socialism), and move out of the darkness. Once you do this, and you really have to do this in order to, you will experience true freedom.
MahiAhiOno
Be Good
Do Good
Fight Evil (such as communism, socialism, totalitarianism, fascism, and, especially, Jturd88)
Okay, now I will lay the "rest of the story" on you.
People don't want to accept the Law of Evolution because it does not provide the one thing for them, the only real thing for them, that they believe in a god for in the first place. The only reason they have religion for, in the first place.
They reject the Law of Evolution because:
(Drum Roll)
It doesn't "provide" for eternal existance, life after death, eternity in the happy hunting ground in the sky, paradise forever, or as most of you know it by "heaven".
Since they don't have the stomach to face their mortality, that they were born, will live a life and die, and that upon death, their existance is finished in totality and forever, they invent religions, ALL of which incorporate eternal life after death (unless there is some obscure religion that doesn't) as part of their mythology.
Now, I offer that everyone just grow up, accept your mortality, the finaltiy and totality of death, live good, clean and productive lives (advancing freedom and fighting it's opposite (communism/socialism), and move out of the darkness. Once you do this, and you really have to do this in order to, you will experience true freedom.
MahiAhiOno
Be Good
Do Good
Fight Evil (such as communism, socialism, totalitarianism, fascism, and, especially, Jturd88)
I can put it more simply. They think it promotes atheism.
That's not correct at all. All evolution establishes is that Genesis cannot be literally true. It is only a small (and kooky) minority in Christianity, for example, that are Biblical Literalists.
If they are willing to believe the Bible is literally true in every respect, despite the findings of modern science, despite history, despite reality, then there is nothing that people like you and I will ever be able to do to convince them otherwise.
"Convictions are more dangerous enemies of the truth than lies." - Nietzsche
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