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Again, you just don't seem to care. You seem irrationally biased towards the Chinese and hell-bent on defending them no matter what. I can't even believe that you label the elimination of a species as "unfortunate"; funny, but I doubt you would think so if that species were human
Yes, "westerners" (I assume that you mean people in the U.S.? or did you mean to include all of Europe, North America and South America ) have a long way to go wrt the ethical treatment of animals. But it is absolutely nothing compared to the blatant disregard and indifference of Chinese laws for the safety, protection and well-being of animals.
Yes, the U.S. engages in factory farming et al., and it certainly isn't a perfect system. But what we don't do is cut the fins off of sharks and then throw them overboard to drown; we don't boil cats alive or electrocute dogs before they are butchered "because it makes the meat taste better"; we also make hunting species that are endangered illegal and at least attempt to save a species. We don't just shrug our shoulders and say, "Oh, well," then use an ignorant "survival of the fittest" rationale to justify our selfish actions.
And BTW, don't accuse me of using generalizations and then come back at me with generalizations about "western" culture. And speaking of moral progress, I certainly agree that it is a process. But I have yet to see Chinese laws wrt animals make even the slightest attempt to progress.
you made generalizations, so i used another one to show you that is what you were doing. you said 'chinese' as in all chinese. do you not get that, or are you mentally deficient?
i'm not 'hell-bent' on defending them. you need to make a distinction on what you have a problem with and not blame the entire chinese population. that is no different than nonamericans blaming all americans for what the government does or it's laws or wars etc. there is a billion plus people there and those who eat cats and dogs is a small minority in comparison. i already stated that i think it's wrong to mistreat animals or not minimize sufferiing or pain as much as possible.
besides, you are projecting your own thinking process. i don't have a big problem if humans became extinct if that happens in the larger scheme of things. i have a different view on the matter and i don't think humans have some special right to exist or are some foregone conclusion. we exist as long as nature allows us to.
don't call someone else a hypocrite when you are being a hypocrite. the problem with china is it's laws. what makes your reasoning disingenous is you seem to not understand gradient levels and totally demonize the chinese as if they are the only ones who cause suffering or abuse animals. that's pretty dishonest actually. it's quite amazing since humans have taken over so much space that animals lose thier natural habitat and squeezed. we kill all types of life that get in our way from bugs that come in our home to those who set up house in on our lawns etc. we use all lifeforms for our benefit and your excuse is "at least we are doing this or that" as if that justifies or magically makes the predation or oppression nil. i'm not justifying anything, i'm saying that you pretend that westerners are clean and without guilt while demonizing the whole of another population. fine, but realize anyone can do that including to you. it's interesting that you say 'save a species' which denotes that it's more for humans benefit or desire than for the species itself. it's because you don't like the idea that they won't exist or are depleted for our use or enjoyment. that's fine and is neither bad/good but don't come off like you are on some moral high-ground because of it because that is not the real motivation. you keep saying 'at least we don't do this' but causing suffering is still causing suffering. be honest about it and don't veil it under some feigned innocence. people still hunt and use animals, whether they are endangered or not doesn't much matter to the animal that is suffering. even factory farming was very cruel and in most places still is. dairy cows are notoriously abused all thier life and separated from their young where they even cry for them and do the young. it doesn't matter to most people because they are a commodity to us. i find your pretense of morality actually very guilty because you do believe you are morally not guilty. it's very clear by the tone of your posts.
that said, most people in china are struggling to just eat or survive and so these things you are concerned about are not foremost in thier concern right now. that is why i said that it's a gradual process of raising consciousness.
there is a billion plus people there and those who eat cats and dogs is a small minority in comparison.
Most people would eat dogs, but they are too expensive. There is very little meat on a dog, and there has been no successful development of a high-volume dog-meat industry, so it is still a luxurious specialty. But nearly every Chinese would happily eat dog instead of cow, if it were the same price and readily available.
I didn't notice a lot of tofu in China, but in Taiwan they consume more tofu than meat, which is very expensive. The tofu in Taiwan is excellent, and if well prepared, you can be fooled into thinking it is meat. I expect the same will happen in China. In South Korea, most people eat meat no more often than once every week or two.
In Vietnam, insect larva and hairless caterpillars are quite popular, and a bowl of them is not bad at all. Just as much protein as beef. I saw cats, rats and bats in the markets, but whether I ever ate any of them is anybody's guess.
I ate little wren-sized songbirds (Serins, I think) in Cyprus, which is a Christian capitalist country. How do you feel about that? During migration, they put some gluey substance on branches, so when the birds land, they get stuck, and are easily harvested.
CONFLICTSPANTOTALS War of Independence (1775-1783) 25,000 Quasi-War (1798-1800) 20 Barbary Wars (1801-1815) 35 War of 1812 (1812-1815) 20,000 1st Seminole War (1817-1818) 30 2nd Seminole War (1835-1842) 1,500 Mexican-American War (1846-1848) 13,283 3rd Seminole War (1855-1858) 26 Civil War (1861-1865) 623,026 Indian Wars (1865-1898) 919 Spanish-American War (1898) 2,446 Philippine War (1898-1902) 4,196 Boxer Rebellion (1900-1901) 37 Mexican Revolution (1914-1919) 35 Haiti Occupation (1915-1934) 146 World War 1 (1917-1918) 116,708 World War 2 (1941-1945) 407,316 Korean War (1950-1953) 36,914 Vietnam War (1964-1973) 58,169 El Salvador (1980-1992) 20 Beirut (1982-1984) 266 Persian Gulf Support (1987-1988) 39 Invasion of Grenada (1983) 19 Invasion of Panama (1989) 40 Persian Gulf War (1991) 269 Somalia (1992-1993) 43 Bosnia 1995 12 Afghanistan (2002-2009) 686+ Iraqi (2003-2009) 4,299+
You counted just the Americans. Were there any other "people" killed by "people" in those wars?
I know. those numbers are too staggering to contemplate. The amount of agony we impart on our family of man.... beyond comprehension. take Iraq alone it is estimated the total death toll is 1,366,350 it makes the 4400 soliders seem of little consequence. trust me I don't forget about all the others. I just have to wonder what goal was worth this toll? Making Cheney rich? Rumsfeld? Bush? dislocating a dictator so another will take his place?
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) have a long way to go wrt the ethical treatment of animals. But it is absolutely nothing compared to the blatant disregard and indifference of Chinese laws for the safety, protection and well-being of animals. 
